Common solenoid/starter problem solution

[Kelly]

The hammer may be the only real tool we need on our boats!

Question: does the hammer blow allow the starter to mesh with the flywheel by jolting the alignment between the gears? Or is this an electrical repair with improved current flow occurring somewhere due to the vibrations?

Curious Kelly

[rigspelt]

Question: does the hammer blow allow the starter to mesh with the flywheel by jolting the alignment between the gears? Or is this an electrical repair with improved current flow occurring somewhere due to the vibrations?

I've always understood it to be a mechanical solution, encouraging stuck parts to spring into action.

As for hammers on boats, see this new thread: http://www.moyermarine.com/forums/sh...ad.php?p=17372.

[marthur]

I have had exactly the same syptoms as Pallen 58. At the time, we were far from home on a three month cruise of the Great Lakes. I disassembled and cleaned the solenoid. I also used a small squirt of SailKote (the dry ptfe lubricant) on the solenoid plunger.

The repair worked for about 375 hours of running time.

[wbarrett46]

Mercury 228 inboard/outboard starter solenoid issue ( newbee)

I have a loud "CLICK" and am very new at this and am so glad I stumbled upon Moyer Marine website. I bought a Celebrity 188 bowrider with a Mercrusier 228 inboard outboard 1985 . I have been out to the lake a dozen times this year, no real problem just cold starting took a try or two. This worked well until I went on vacation for a week and left the plug in the boat. It rained and the rear area created pool in bottom of boat and I believe the starter and Solenoid were under water. I tested the battery when got back was dead, and was brand new in March 2010. Charged it and is holding 12 to 13 volts, I have same volts at the Solenoid connection but was worried I put the bolt on to tight, is it supposed to move within the solenoid? Also Starter is not turning over. I replaced the pos cable as it was corroded to the solenoid. I cleaned up where I could but did not take starter and solenoid off and look inside for water damage. What to do now?

Many threads here detail problems involving either the solenoid or the starter- or both. I recently worked through one of my own (with my father-in-law, the best one could hope for) and wanted to share the troubleshooting and solution with everyone.

Symptoms: very often in starting the engine (almost every time), pushing on the starter button would result in a loud click but no running of the starter motor. After one, two or three (or more) pushes on the starter button, and with a loud click every time, the starter motor would eventually turn and the engine would start. These symptoms did not depend on engine temperature and could manifest themselves at any time of the day. I never had a "no start" situation but when ever I would get the click and no starter motor, my heart would skip three beats.

After checking the carbon brushes in the starter motor and cleaning all accessible connections (the starter motor ran like a champ on the bench and the solenoid never hesitated in sliding its piston back and pushing the starter gear forward) the condition remained the same once re-installed on the engine.

Engine check: we rigged a 12V lamp between the two large terminals on the back of the solenoid and tried starting the engine. Bingo! When we heard the loud click and didn't get the starter motor running, the lamp was not shining: no 12V current was arriving at the starter despite all indications that the solenoid was functioning correctly.

Solution: we took apart the back of the solenoid (see photos) to find that the heads of the large copper bolts were worn and that the large washer that is pushed-up against the two bolts in order to close the circuit was corroded. We rotated the bolts in their housings to expose fresh metal and cleaned-up the washer. Everything looked good but after further testing, the problem remained!!

Final solution: it turns out that the washer was only making occasional contact with the bolt heads despite our efforts. A second intervention involved placing fiber washers under the heads of the two large bolts (one washer each) to move them closer to the connecting washer. In this way, the contact is assured despite tiring springs and worn bolt heads.

In the first photo you can clearly see one of the larger copper bolts. The washer was placed where you can see the thin copper washer sitting over the square portion of the bolt. The same was done for the second large bolt, visible in the solenoid casing in the second photo.

You can also clearly see the large, corroded washer mounted between two springs on the central axis. This is what is pushed up towards the copper bolts when you press the starter button (or turn the key) in order to allow the full 12V coming from the batteries to reach the starter motor.

The piece I am holding between my fingers doesn't seem to be used in most of our A4 configurations while the hard-wired bolt directly opposite is the "S" post on the back of the solenoid.

Hopefully this explanation will be of some use to others with similar disquieting symptoms.

Kelly

[pallen58]

Almost new starter and solenoid

This is a follow up to my posting last fall. We put a new solenoid on the starter last fall and until this point we had good starts. Two weeks ago we were heading out with friends for an evening sail and of course no start. We did still enjoy the Bailey's.
The next day the resident mechanic ran some tests and said I needed a new starter and before I could so "huh" he had it off. At one point it had been submerged in water and I can't tell you what I said the insides looked like. He had me take it to his starter expert who re-built it in a day. It sure makes the rest of the engine look good.
Now I have issue of hearing the solenoid engage but don't always get a start. After several button pushes it fires right up. From this forum it seems I need to check the voltage during the start sequence. I have good voltage and all new wires/ cables from the re-wire this past winter/ spring. And the voltage at the battery and solenoid are over 13.
The other opinion offered to me was that I have new teeth trying to engage an old fly wheel and that it just isn't meshing at this point.
Any thoughts?
Thanks
Pat

[hanleyclifford]

A voltmeter is not the best tool for measuring the battery's ability to deliver amperage on a start up. Try testing the battery with an automotive type load tester.

[smosher]

I would think that a good digital meter could measure the sag in the dc
when the starter was engaged. You would have to measure a good vs bad battery to get an idea.

You need to make the vdc measurements when the starter is engaged. Amps are used when there's a load, in this case when the starter is engaged. 2 6 vdc lantern batteries connected in series will also give 12 vdc, until the starter is engaged.

Steve

[hanleyclifford]

This is a strong reason for having both amp and volt meters. Of course we cannot measure the amperage draw unless the starter actually engages and does it's job. In my previous post I was only suggesting that the battery be eliminated as the culprit first. BTW starter draw should be about 130 amps.

[Kelly]

It's always flattering to have an old thread "resurrected".

A problem like this can be as simple as a poor connection to ground. Double check (clean) the main connection to ground on your engine. You mention a recent re-wire but this merits attention none the less.

In your no-start situation, do you hear the loud "clunk" of the solenoid throwing the starter gear forward but no starter whirring? Or do you get the starter to turn but with no engagement? If it's the first case, the previous comments are all valid. For the second I would think you have an alignment problem or compatibility question between the starter and the flywheel.

[jhwelch]

You mention new wiring -- did you also replace the starter switch? One year I was having troubles and part of the solution was a new starter button (the other was a new wire from that button).

A quick test of your wiring would be to bypass it all by jumping from the hot lead on the starter to the little terminal your starter wire is attached to. Because I was having so much trouble tracking down my problem I got a "remote starter switch" for about $12 at the auto parts store.

-jonathan

[ArtJ]

I went thru a rash of starter exchanges last fall until it was finally discovered
that the rebuilder was using a different spring which did not always
permit the starter to fully engage, hence intermittant clicks.

Once the proper spring was installed, no more problems.

Regards

Art

[pallen58]

Starter problem solved for now

The electrician sailor made it down to the boat and ran his meter all over the wiring between the starter switch and the solenoid. He found a 5 volt drop somewhere in the circuit so that meant I was trying to start with only 7 volts.
So far in this I have had the starter re-built and a new solenoid. Friday I put in a new started switch and ran the wire from that right to the solenoid. That has cured the problem and all weekend we go great starts with the 1st push of the button.
While I had the panel off I confirmed that I need to rewire the entire engine to panel circuit. The wiring harness behind the panel is broken and is where I probably was losing my 5 volts. The only guages that work are the water temp and oil pressure. No lights either. Alternator not wired in at all. So I am hoping she who must be obeyed will let me buy the wiring kit for a winter project.
Keep sailing it isn't snowing yet.
Pat

[sastanley]

Pat,

Thanks for the update. A re-wire project is definitely on my TO-DO list. One thing I did do this summer was eliminate the long run to/from the ammeter in the cockpit to get better charging performance. However, my Catalina 30 still has most of its remaining OEM wiring which has been known to be suspect when it gets to the age mine is.

Supposed to warm up to the 80's again here...maybe we'll do some sailing this weekend!!!

[rigspelt]

Supposed to warm up to the 80's again here...maybe we'll do some sailing this weekend!!!

Shawn, if we waited til it was 80 up here there would be no sailing at all, from May to October. Had some, brisk nice wool sweater sails lately, but it was indeed a fabulous summer before the autumn winds began picking up.

[sastanley]

rigs, my blood is very thin. I am not sure I could survive north of the Mason-Dixon line for any extended period of time.