description/difficulty of FWC install?

[JonnyQuest]

JQ - The bulkhead in front of the engine appears to preclude the crank mounted pump unless you are able to modify it. The rather large alternator isn't going to be happy sharing a belt. You may be a good candidate for an electric pump, either bulkhead or thru hull mounted. The good news is that you appear to have a space for a vertical exchanger. Let's see a few more pictures. Attached is picture of my salt water pump. Hanley

Ahh! I hadn't thought of a thru-hull mounted pump, neat idea. I'll get some more photos tomorrow, thanks again!

[ndutton]

Your last comment-- what are you referring to when you said to scrutinize the hot section at the same time? Are you referring to the condition of the piping, unions, etc. coming from the engine-- the portion covered by the asbestos wrapping, correct?

Yup, that's the one. There's a good chance it's constructed of black iron and therefore deteriorates over time. The wrap masks problems. I thought as long as you were messing around in the area it would be a convenient time to check things out. At a minimum you could replace what you say is asbestos wrap with a newer, safer product.

Plenty of threads on the forum regarding hot sections, their design and construction.

[ndutton]

Attached is picture of my salt water pump.

Hanley,
What sort of power-on / engine-run control do you have for that pump?

[hanleyclifford]

Neil - The salt water pump is wired to the ignition circuit which is on an oil pressure switch.

[ndutton]

Figured it was something like that. Is the oil pressure switch ahead of the ignition or after it? I'm guessing after.

[hanleyclifford]

Neil - I don't have a traditional ignition switch. A hot bat handle switch energizes a (7-9psi) oil pressure switch. Coil, fuel pump, salt water pump and instruments all come on together. The alternator sense has it's own dedicated oil presure switch.

[ndutton]

So you need to crank the starter long enough to build up oil pressure before the systems kick in, correct?

[hanleyclifford]

Neil - That is correct; I do not want my engine to fire until minimal oil pressure is reached.

[ndutton]

Hanley,

I'm fascinated with your thru-hull mounted pump and have more questions.

As I recall, you have a waterlift exhaust system, my question does not apply to a standpipe. One of the charms of the conventional engine driven impeller pump is it pumps an amount of water proportionate to the engine RPM and accordingly the exhaust has to lift an amount of water proportionate to exhaust volume and pressure.

So, my question is: with your electric raw water pump operating at full volume at all times, even at idle, have you ever experienced an issue or had a concern with the exhaust's ability to handle the flow?

I seem to remember Thatch's electric pump FWC system design used the electric pump (not thru-hull mounted) to circulate the FW side of the system partly for this reason.

Other questions:

Is there a debris problem in your area? Here in SoCal we deal with kelp. There are floating kelp patties (fish hotels) all over the place, even mid channel to Catalina. I've reverted to a non-strainer thru-hull and a raw water strainer to deal with it. If the thru-hull gets clogged I can pull the hose and rod it out. Otherwise, I count on the strainer to handle anything that's sucked up. Have you had any thru-hull/pump clogging issues and if so, how did you resolve it?

Do you have a raw water strainer? My understanding is the seals on raw water strainers are designed for negative pressure whereas a strainer in an application such as yours would be in a positive pressure situation. Maybe the pressure is so small that it's not a problem.

As you can tell, I'm interested in your experience. Right now I'm flushing my RWC engine after each use but I'd like to add FWC someday. The Catalina 30, for reasons mentioned previously, has some real space problems when it comes to FWC so these electric pump installations, like yours and Thatch's, get my attention.

[sastanley]

sidebar!!

JQ,

I think you need a safety wire on that square locking nut on the shaft coupler. If that ever backed out, the shaft could slide out of the boat in reverse.

Don't forget to wear a mask when you unwrap that stuff since we don't know what it is.

[ArtJ]

In addition to the safety wire, I have installed a spare shaft zinc on the
shaft for additional protection against the shaft spinning out.

[JonnyQuest]

What's the safety wire?

JQ,

I think you need a safety wire on that square locking nut on the shaft coupler. If that ever backed out, the shaft could slide out of the boat in reverse.

Don't forget to wear a mask when you unwrap that stuff since we don't know what it is.

Good idea, I'll def get a mask when I tackle the wrap.

I'm a new owner with plenty of wet behind my ears, and don't know what you are referring to regarding a safety wire on the shaft coupling. Could you elaborate on what it is, where to get it, maybe a pic from someone?

Not knocking the previous owner, but there are a lot of issues that I need to learn and take care of on this boat to bring it back up to speed-- it sails and the engine runs, but I can see that there's a lot of deferred maintenance going on here.

But then it wouldn't be a sailboat if there wasn't an endless to-do list, would it?

[sastanley]

JQ, here ya go. I edited your earlier pic with some instructions. I am also posting a pic of my old coupler which still shows the safety wire in place..the locking nut is not visible.

[JonnyQuest]

Thanks for the pictures--that cleared things up for me perfectly!

Scratch one easy thing off the to-do list.

[hanleyclifford]

Hanley,

I'm fascinated with your thru-hull mounted pump and have more questions.

As I recall, you have a waterlift exhaust system, my question does not apply to a standpipe. One of the charms of the conventional engine driven impeller pump is it pumps an amount of water proportionate to the engine RPM and accordingly the exhaust has to lift an amount of water proportionate to exhaust volume and pressure.

So, my question is: with your electric raw water pump operating at full volume at all times, even at idle, have you ever experienced an issue or had a concern with the exhaust's ability to handle the flow?

I seem to remember Thatch's electric pump FWC system design used the electric pump (not thru-hull mounted) to circulate the FW side of the system partly for this reason.

Other questions:

Is there a debris problem in your area? Here in SoCal we deal with kelp. There are floating kelp patties (fish hotels) all over the place, even mid channel to Catalina. I've reverted to a non-strainer thru-hull and a raw water strainer to deal with it. If the thru-hull gets clogged I can pull the hose and rod it out. Otherwise, I count on the strainer to handle anything that's sucked up. Have you had any thru-hull/pump clogging issues and if so, how did you resolve it?

Do you have a raw water strainer? My understanding is the seals on raw water strainers are designed for negative pressure whereas a strainer in an application such as yours would be in a positive pressure situation. Maybe the pressure is so small that it's not a problem.

As you can tell, I'm interested in your experience. Right now I'm flushing my RWC engine after each use but I'd like to add FWC someday. The Catalina 30, for reasons mentioned previously, has some real space problems when it comes to FWC so these electric pump installations, like yours and Thatch's, get my attention.

Neil - The pump does indeed run at full force all the time but because of the circuitness nature of a raw water side of an exchanger, and the fact that I have four of them, the pump never achieves it's rated output. So far I have not had any problems with too much water at idle. I have, however, installed a diverter system from the output end of the raw side which selects between exhaust system and direct overboard. This was done to conserve horsepower and not make the exhaust gases do unnecessary work. My pump never achieves anything near the pressure of a mechanical pump. The system is predicated on low raw water pressure moving thru multiple exchangers to extract the heat. The system also relies on rapid change out capability because in reality this is a baitwell pump prone to sudden failure. I keep spares handy and pre-wired; I have changed one in less than a minute. The good news is that they are cheap. We do not have the debris problem that plagues the west coast so I have only an ouside hull strainer. See my Engine album. Hanley