description/difficulty of FWC install?

[JonnyQuest]

Looking down the road, I am sure that the fresh water cooling system conversion is a great idea, and want to get on it as soon as Santa brings me a sack of money.

How difficult is it to add on the MMI FWC kit and are there any descriptions of what the project involves? I haven't found any so far.

Thanks all!

JQ

[rigspelt]

It's not technically difficult for a careful DIYr with decent wrench skills and sound basic understand of engine function. Excellent information is scattered through several threads in the forum archives, and well worth locating with the search tool.

Planning is important. Finding places around the engine for the heat exchanger, reservoir, additional hoses and second pump needs to be considered before purchasing a kit. There are two main choices: MMI's second pump running off the front of the engine, and Indigo's second pump running off the accessory drive. Both kits use the same heat exchanger, I think. The raw water hoses feeding the heat exchanger are a larger ID than the stock A4 cooling hoses feeding the engine block, which might require a different tailpipe on the raw water intake seacock, and a different nipple on the discharge side in the exhaust. Buy good quality hoses. There was a very good thread recently discussing the relative heights of the heat exchanger, engine and reservoir.

Execution is mainly a matter of sound plumbing and wrenching practice.

Feel free to ask questions. There is a lot of talent in this forum, and a lot of ways to do this.

When I was muddling through this, I made the attached image. Buyer beware: I am a one-off amateur DIYr, not an expert.

[jstaff]

You will be drilling a few holes... and may need a hole saw to run hoses to/from the heat exchanger. It's just nuts, bolts, screws, and hose clamps.

Keep in mind that you will need to be able to change the zinc each year and in time, the hoses. You may need to be creative when it comes to running the hoses.

I saved a wasting-away engine by instaling a fresh water system.

J

[JonnyQuest]

Indigo electric pump system?

It looks like the Indigo FWC system utilizes the existing raw water pump and has a second electric pump for the other one. I expect this could make for a less difficult installation in a crowded engine compartment, as things are REALLY tight at the secondary drive location--flywheel end of engine, right?

Indigo: http://www.atomic4.com/fwcelect.html

I will need to get onboard and really see the spaces in the main and accessory drive areas, as I'm not even sure I have much clearance near the main drive either.

Do I have the big picture here? If the Indigo system uses the existing pump with rerouted hoses and a remotely mounted electric pump, might this be more flexible for an install?

[jstaff]

I would avoid an electric pump...

I needed to move the front engine compartment cover forward about 1" to have clearance for the drive pulley on the crank.

[Dave Neptune]

Pump clearance

JQ, there are a few options upot there for pumping the cooling water. Tom H on this site has a really nice electric one, he even gave me pic of the pump but I don't have a digital file to post. Perhaps he will see this and chime in on his set up. It is reall clean especially if you are confined from using the front mount or the less preferable one added to the aux drive. The one on the aux requires a good dael of belt preassure and can be a bit of a problem keeping adjusted on some applications. The front mount is nice if you have the space.

Dave Neptune

[sastanley]

JQ,

I have a Catalina 30, which pretty much eliminates the extra pump on the flywheel option from Moyer without extensive cabinet modifications....my boat has about 3/4" clearance in front of the center of the flywheel. I also have an old accessory drive and don't really want to put another pump on top of that with all the belt tension required to circulate the fresh water.

I had pretty much given up on FWC until I came across Indigo's electric pump idea & I really like it.

To answer Jeff's concerns, Tom has also engineered a redundant pump system..he is selling the system with a 2nd pump cheaper than I can even find the pumps by themselves, so if you were concerned about failure of an electric pump, get two...the MTBF is 1,000 hours on those pumps.

When Santa brings me a sack of money, that's where I am spending it!

[Al Schober]

I installed the Moyer kit two years ago and am very happy with it.
I'd say the most difficult part of the job was locating the heat exchanger. You have to be able to run 4 hoses to it, plus have access to the fill cap and the zinc. And it helps if it's sorta vertical.
I had no problem with the pump on the front of the engine. Engine turns, pump turns, no worries about electric. I started school as an EE, changed to Mechanical. Never could remember that ditty for power - it was either 'Twinkle, twinkle, little star, power equal i squared r" or "Birdie, birdie, in the sky, power equals r squared i".

[jstaff]

If a small modification can be made to the engine cover, I think the outcome will be more dependable.

Think of it this way, what performs better on most boats, neglected impellers or neglected electrical devices?

Joe

[hanleyclifford]

Converting to FWC is a major modification and could require relocation of components in the engine room. Two big issues to start with - how to add an additional fluid pump is first; mechanical or electrical, accessory drive or PTO from the front of the crank (mechanical), or bulkhead or thru hull (electrical). I do not like making the alternator share a belt with a pump. The exchanger is a big problem. Vertical mounting in most boats is challenging. Both the Moyer and Indigo units have the "header tank" built in which must be close to vertical. It is also possible to lay a Sendure exchanger horizontal and do a separate header tank, the higher in the boat the better. If you post some pictures of your engine room we could probably suggest something specific.

[JonnyQuest]

Here are some photos

Converting to FWC is a major modification and could require relocation of components in the engine room. Two big issues to start with - how to add an additional fluid pump is first; mechanical or electrical, accessory drive or PTO from the front of the crank (mechanical), or bulkhead or thru hull (electrical). I do not like making the alternator share a belt with a pump. The exchanger is a big problem. Vertical mounting in most boats is challenging. Both the Moyer and Indigo units have the "header tank" built in which must be close to vertical. It is also possible to lay a Sendure exchanger horizontal and do a separate header tank, the higher in the boat the better. If you post some pictures of your engine room we could probably suggest something specific.

I may get back tomorrow and take better pictures to show the available clearance in the engine compartment, but these show some of my equipment at least. Some show the clearance I have to the side wall and ceiling, the flywheel clearance, etc.

Better pics tomorrow, thanks!

[JonnyQuest]

Water Lift Muffler leak?

It appears to be the source of the pooling water in my engine compartment--I previously thought it was the packing gland, but this water accumulates over time after sailing, not while running the engine/prop shaft. One photo shows a drip from my packing gland/stuffing box, but that is reduced now to a mere occasional drip, yet water still accumulates--I expect its the water lift muffler.

Here are some photos, do ya'll concur on this as the water source? and not knowing the exhaust system, is this a job with the boat in or out of the water?

If it can only be done out of the water, does this look like yet another job for JB Weld? or some other product?

Thanks again, the boat and I thank you all.

[ndutton]

Your stainless muffler looks very much like mine when I bought my boat. I immediately replaced it with a fiberglass Centek and it has been trouble free ever since. Moyer offers a stainless replacement too.

The replacement can be safely done in the water, there are no special considerations. Might want to scrutinize the hot section at the same time.

[hanleyclifford]

JQ - The bulkhead in front of the engine appears to preclude the crank mounted pump unless you are able to modify it. The rather large alternator isn't going to be happy sharing a belt. You may be a good candidate for an electric pump, either bulkhead or thru hull mounted. The good news is that you appear to have a space for a vertical exchanger. Let's see a few more pictures. Attached is picture of my salt water pump. Hanley

[JonnyQuest]

Your stainless muffler looks very much like mine when I bought my boat. I immediately replaced it with a fiberglass Centek and it has been trouble free ever since. Moyer offers a stainless replacement too.

The replacement can be safely done in the water, there are no special considerations. Might want to scrutinize the hot section at the same time.

I just emailed Centek for assistance in selecting the right replacement, thanks for that suggestion.

Your last comment-- what are you referring to when you said to scrutinize the hot section at the same time? Are you referring to the condition of the piping, unions, etc. coming from the engine-- the portion covered by the asbestos wrapping, correct?