Greetings from Long Beach

[Jim_G]

Just a quick note to introduce myself: I’m Jim and have been accessing valuable information from this site for the 15 years I’ve owned our Ranger 33 (1972 with late model A-4) out of Shoreline Marina, Long Beach, CA. We mostly sail in and out of our slip as we face into the predominant westerly winds and we are able to beam reach in and out under main on most days. I do run the engine in the slip every week and occasionally get caught out with no wind when we fire up the A-4 so it’s nice to have the little beast functioning properly. Appreciate the help from this group as well as Ken at Moyer Marine to keep us operational. Thank you!

Although I’m not much of a mechanic I have managed over the years to rebuild the carburetor, install remote oil filter, change to electronic ignition, upgraded to studs on the water jacket, installed thermostat bypass kit, installed new water pump and recently performed an acid flush for the first time since the motor was rebuilt 7 years ago and installed the MMI rewiring kit and new gauges.

Full disclosure, also managed to blow up a perfectly good pair of batteries (wasn’t present but whitenesses the aftermath of what I suspect was 110VAC into the bat bank looks like- it was a giant mess) so replaced my ancient battery charger with a Sterling 30A charger.

So, in an effort to not sink the boat, thought I’d make this post and directly communicate with the group.

Current Issues:
- Alternator (original 35 amp Motorola) seems to be charging batteries at +16 volts. Guessing the external regulator not functioning and not sure if this is something I should tackle myself, take to a shop or consider 55 amp and 100 amp upgrade from MMI…?

- new ISSPRO volt meter reading under 13 so I was surprised when I took a reading on the battery bank that showed +16…?

- ongoing reversing gear issues- it’s either VERY difficult to shift or the next cog clockwise eventually slips out of gear when running at 2000 rpm. Am I missing another adjustment point that might help dial this in?

- hard start, dies at low idle- the electronic ignition helped, as did the carb rebuild, but I suspect fuel issues despite the rancor filter and polishing filter. Working through this one, I’ll report back.

That’s it for now!

Thanks,
Jim

[JOHN COOKSON]

A quick thought R\E the hard start\no idle issue.
How long has it been since you serviced the advance (under the distributor breaker plate) and checked the timing?

Try shifing into and out of gear by hand with the shift cable disconnected an see if the issues change. You might need a adjustment of the cable or inside the transmission.

ex TRUE GRIT

[Jim_G]

Hi John,

Not sure if I understand how to service the advance. I had the breaker plate off 2 years ago to make sure the springs we operating easily. I’ll check into servicing the advance. Thanks.

Just set timing this week (found TDC, made sure rotor facing to 9 o’clock, turned breaker plate tab until under rotor arm and started. Barely got it started and put in gear and up to cruising rpm and fine tuned until rpms maxed out. Had to turn almost 1/4 turn… seems like I messed up here somewhere.

I disconnected shift linkage from shift lever and was still very difficult to shift by hand.

Thanks,
Jim

[Dave Neptune]

Jim, servicing the centrifugal advance is nothing more than claening and/or lubing the "spring" assembly so it moves freely. It can get stuck causing all sorts of performance issues. When giving the rotor a twist it should spring back smoothly.

At 16v the alternator is KILLING your batteries. There are shops in Long Beach that can easily check and fix your alternator. If you decide to go to a bigger alt REMEMBER the A-4 barely turns fast enough to charge and get rid of the heat it develops. The fan on the alt needs to spin far faster so getting the extra amps from a larger alt just adds to the heat. Unless your vessel needs the more amps stick with the 35amp.

When trying to shift by hand were you moving the shift lever at the trans? For most all new A-4 owners the trans is a bit of an enigma. It takes far more pressure to get the trans in forward and "locked in with the detent" than one would think AND unless it is locked in it will slip at a higher throttle settings. Remember to that there is nothing but "YOUR HAND" on the shifter that holds the trans in reverse!!!

As far as idle, what RPM is it idling and how many turns do you have the AIR adjusting screw off the seat? Also when rebuilding did you make sure the internal sealing part of the gasket on the emulsion well is sealing properly. Any leak here can raise havoc with the idle! Always use a new gasket!!!

Dave Neptune

[ndutton]

Ankle bone connected to the leg bone

At 16v the alternator is KILLING your batteries. There are shops in Long Beach that can easily check and fix your alternator. If you decide to go to a bigger alt REMEMBER the A-4 barely turns fast enough to charge and get rid of the heat it develops. The fan on the alt needs to spin far faster so getting the extra amps from a larger alt just adds to the heat. Unless your vessel needs the more amps stick with the 35amp.

I'd like to offer a different perspective
The heat generated in the alternator is directly related to the amperage it's producing. The amperage it's producing is directly related to the battery bank's state of charge (SOC). The greater the battery bank is discharged, the greater the amperage output produced by the alternator. The converse is true also, shallow discharging results in lower charge amps.

If you discharge your battery bank to a point where the SOC and regulator determine a 20 amp charge current is appropriate, it does not matter what size alternator you have. A 105A alternator will put out 20A the same as a 35A alternator will with the associated heat being equal as well.

Personally I prefer the larger alternator even though I don't discharge my banks deeply before recharging. If the battery SOC is such that a 35A charge is initially called for, my 105A alternator will be cruising along at a third of its maximum capacity whereas a 35A alternator will be maxxed out at its full rated capacity. Further, the 105A alternator is physically bigger and therefore so is its cooling fan. If the heat produced at 35A is roughly equal between the large and small alternators, they're both turning the same RPM and the 105A has a bigger fan . . . . . see where I'm headed?

There's an old rule of thumb regarding alternator size on boats. How well it applies I can't say but it's been around for several decades. Alternator size in amps should roughly equal ¼ the combined amp-hours of the battery banks. I followed this rule when refitting my boat 17 years* ago. I have four GR31 house batteries (105A-H each) and one GR24 engine starter battery (65A) for a total of 485A-H, a quarter of that is 121 amps. My alternator is 105A. If I discount the engine starter I'm exactly at the ¼ rule.

Most importantly however is Dave's comment about 16V. Your batteries are getting murdered at that voltage. Please take it seriously and don't dally around getting the recommended testing done.

*edited for typo. I mis-typed "tears" rather than years but in a Freudian way it could have remained.

[Jim_G]

Hi Dave,

Thanks for the note. Based on the above I think my advance is fine. Noted on alternator info. I thought the +16 was no bueno. I’ll make sure the carb is sealed properly with new gasket and give it a general clean. Was shifting by hand with the linkage off and it was very difficult to shift but getting close here with all the great info on this site. Thanks again, Jim

[Jim_G]

Hi Neal,

Ok thanks, great info. I’m on it and will get the alternator sorted.

[ndutton]

Jim, I got caught up in the alternator discussion and for got to mention I'm not comfortable with your timing description:

Just set timing this week (found TDC, made sure rotor facing to 9 o’clock, turned breaker plate tab until under rotor arm and started

What's missing is a mention of the rotor pointing to the distributor cap post for #1 plug wire when at #1 TDC. The plug for that cylinder must fire at TDC. Also, how sure are you that TDC was on the compression stroke and not the exhaust stroke? I'm amazed how often this happens.

[Jim_G]

Hi Neal,

To answer your question: not very sure at all that the pressure I felt was actually the #1 piston arriving at TDC or pressure from the valve stroke. I’ll revisit this and confirm with a flashlight per Don’ video. Then will take off the disto cap and confirm that rotor arm is pointing away from block at 90 degrees. Then I should rotate the distributor until breaker plate tab aligns under rotor arm. Then start, warm up engine, put in gear and throttle up to cruising speed and advance to find sweet spot and back off slightly from there. Does this sound right?

Also, there isn’t an alignment pin on the end of my crank shaft but there is a 1/4 inch hole in the flywheel about 2 inches in from the teeth which seemed to line up 1/4 turn from 12 o’clock when I felt what I thought was the #1 compression stroke. So I turned flywheel another quarter turn and used that hole to get to TDC. I’m getting above my pay grade here

Thanks for the help,
Jim

[ndutton]

I haven't seen the Moyer timing video so I may be learning something here.

Then will take off the disto cap and confirm that rotor arm is pointing away from block at 90 degrees

In a pure timing sense, where the rotor arm points relative to the engine has no bearing on timing. The position convention you mention has to do with alternator belt clearance re: the distributor cap. The only way your description has merit is if the #1 spark plug wire is connected to the distributor cap post that is ALSO 90° from the block. Remember: spark to #1 must be at TDC for #1.

Then I should rotate the distributor until breaker plate tab aligns under rotor arm.

Same thing, from a pure timing sense it doesn't matter as long as spark to #1 is at #1 TDC. Wire positions on the distributor cap are completely dependent on that. Get #1 right then connect the wires in the proper order clockwise around the cap (1-2-4-3).

We do have a convention on this forum where we prefer the #1 spark plug wire attached to the dist cap post you describe but it means nothing unless the rotor is pointing there too at #1 TDC.

TDC-rotor-cap-plug wire, all must coincide for #1 cylinder for proper timing. THAT'S what matters.

[Jim_G]

Ok so step #1 is to confirm I’m getting the correct #1 TDC. Step #2 is to make sure rotor arm points away from block (if not, take distributor out of gear and turn and re engage at correct point. Step #3 (to your point) make sure #1 plug lead aligns with rotor arm direction.

Thanks Neal, I’ll give this a shot next time down at the boat and report back. Thanks!

[ndutton]

I'm local to you and happy to stop by sometime if you like.

[Jim_G]

Thanks for the nice offer. I think I have a better understanding of what needs to get done. Wold rather have you down for a beer and a sail. Raincheck?

[ndutton]

Thanks for the nice offer. I think I have a better understanding of what needs to get done. Wold rather have you down for a beer and a sail. Raincheck?

Sounds good to me.

[Jim_G]

Just to close the loop on this:
- timing was set wrong, started over and used a safety wire through #1 spark plug hole to actually feel #1 piston arriving at top of stroke to find #1 TDC. Took disto cap off and rotor was off so repositioned disto a tooth or so over (also made sure advance was operational and oiled). Engine started on second try and idles fine at 1k rpm (a bit rough at 900). But seems to run great!

- Alternator not charging. Resting battery 12.42 and 12.3 with engine running at 1800 rpm. Local shop wants $180 to rebuild (original Motorola 35A) so I ordered a replacement from MMI. A note: my multi meter was reading 16.5A, turns out the internal battery on multi meter was bad. So good news - not killing the batteries.

- finally, feeling good about reversing gear issues.

Thanks everyone, appreciate the help!