Launchpad McQ's Catalina 30 Atomic 4 Saga

[sastanley]

McQ, You've already got the galley out, now you just put a hose clamp on the prop shaft so it doesn't slide out of the stuffing box, and yank the motor with a 4:1 purchase on the boom. Let's get to work!

[rkohl44]

Following your progress with bated breath, McQ. Have already found a lengthy checklist of things to check on my '82 Catalina 30.

[ndutton]

We have the original square-top, single hole to be addressed:

I didn't remember before but it turns out I had a detailed picture of the offending lower chainplate and a picture of the proper replacement.

[sastanley]

I didn't remember before but it turns out I had a detailed picture of the offending lower chainplate.

So, I am the 2nd owner of my boat, and the fitting Neil shows failed and dropped the rig in 1987 before I owned it..But in 1987 they replaced it with the same single bolt!! I replaced all this nonsense with the U-bolt upgrade from Catalina Direct when I took the rig down in 2012-ish.

[Peter]

Despite all of my efforts up to this point to rehabilitate this engine, I’m now in the middle of a complete tear-down, machining, and rebuild. However, I realized that I’ve already forgotten much of the work I’ve done and if I don’t start writing this thread, I may never get around to it. I hope you’ll all forgive the awkward timing of “arriving-in-the-middle-of-the-story.”

He does not need any encouragement to pull the engine - this thread is a recounting of how he got to be in the middle of a complete rebuild.

But, maybe I have read that wrong.

Peter

[Launchpad McQ]

With the crankshaft roll pin sheared off I don't see any way this will be resolved in situ. The engine is coming out of its hole sooner or later, may as well get after it.

Yep Neil you're absolutely right. Although if I had started this thread in 2013 when I was actually at this point in the process, I would've been in complete denial about the necessity of removing the engine to make it operational, and tried to find every excuse to repair it somehow in the boat.

*Spoiler Alert*
At this point, the engine has been removed from the boat for a complete rebuild, although in a much more entertaining way than you can probably imagine. Read on. Here we go!

[Launchpad McQ]

After a month of frequent Marvel Mystery Oil squirts into the cylinders via the open spark plug holes, I figured that the piston rings would've been unstuck from the cylinder walls by this point, or they wouldn't. Either way, I'd have a resolution to the question of why the engine wouldn't turn. However, the dilemma remained that I only had 1/2 of the crankshaft timing roll pin upon which to leverage my homemade socket/breaker bar set up and rotate the engine by hand. It was my last hope before things got expensive. I felt like Dennis Quaid in the movie remake Flight of the Phoenix when he's trying to start the engine of the wrecked-and-rebuilt C-119 airplane in the Gobi desert with his last remaining shotgun shell before the charging tribe of horseback-riding bandits overruns the crew and certain death results. With a firm yet gentle grip of the oversized breaker bar, I oh-so-carefully started pulling, hoping for the engine to give up its stubborness in reluctant submission and rotate. And....Bam! As you can probably guess, the breaker bar broke free of the crankshaft with a tremendous "clank!" and I went flying across the salon while somehow managing not to impale myself on the breaker bar itself or slam my head through one of my leaky portlights. I rushed back to the flywheel, inspected the front of the crankshaft to discover my fears had been realized. I had just sheared off the other 1/2 of the roll pin and in so doing, eliminated any hope of getting the engine to turn without a complete teardown...or did I?

Maybe it's my Polish ancestry or my unwillingness to accept defeat but I knew there had to be something else I could do to get this motor to rotate without spending money. I had a 3' galvanized steel pipe, an 8 lb sledge hammer, and a 6-pack of beer onboard. Shouldn't that be enough? As it turns out, yes it was. All the sudden it dawned on me to remove the starter, place one end of my breaker bar pipe through the starter cutout hole in the flywheel cover and onto the teeth of the flywheel to gain more rotational leverage, then hammer on the other end of the pipe with the sledge hammer (it works especially well when you're hammering out of frustration). You'd think this would be a terrific way to destroy a perfectly good flywheel by chipping off some teeth but surprisingly the galvanized steel pipe was no match for the seemingly hardened steel teeth of the Atomic flywheel. I could hardly believe it but with every successive bang of the hammer, I felt the flywheel turn a few degrees. Victory!

After a few more squirts of MMO in the cylinders for good measure, I was able to re-install the starter, attach a cheap trigger-style remote starter up to the starter solenoid's terminals (bypassing the keyed ignition switch and infamous failure-prone rubber Catalina "trailer plugs" in the engine wiring harness) and get the engine to crank. So I had just improved my situation from a no-crank, no-start problem to a crank, no-start problem, and I couldn't have been happier. I sat out in the cockpit that night with a beer in hand, basking in the glory of a small victory and patting myself on the back for the stroke of Polish ingenuity when my well-intentioned dock neighbor came walking down the dock. Remember that guy? That guy from post #12? Yeah, that guy. As I enthusiastically recounted the story of the day's success he listened patiently and replied, "Good job! Well, I guess you'll be removing the head tomorrow to take a look at the valves. At least head gaskets for that thing are probably cheap. I think there's a website called Mayer's or Moyer's or something where you can get parts for it. Just Google search 'Atomic 4' and you'll find 'em." "Why the hell would I do that!" I thought to myself. I just went through all that effort for the exact purpose of not removing the cylinder head. He could probably see the indignant look on my face, when he immediately followed with "You've gotta at least take a look at those valves. If you don't, you're just wasting your time." That night I got online, came to this forum, and started reading through every thread I could find that sounded remotely like it applied to my situation. Of course I'd soon find out there were many threads that applied to many different problems I'd inherited with this neglected motor. I just didn't know it yet. By the end of the night I came to the conclusion that my neighbor was probably right and I needed to take a look at the valves to ensure everything was in working order. Next order of business:


Off with the head!

What I learned

• If for any reason you were to shear off the crankshaft timing roll pin like I did, because of interference with the flywheel studs, it's very difficult if not impossible to replace the pin in place. More importantly, the pin is used for visually setting the engine timing to Top-Dead-Center so when it's broken/missing, it's a PITA to get the timing right. (More on that later)
• A trigger-style remote starter is a very useful piece of equipment on a boat, especially when the ignition switch is up in the cockpit and you're trying to diagnose/fix ignition related issues by yourself down in the engine compartment.

What I'd do differently

• Avoid shearing a fastener that doesn't want to move and thereby making the situation exponentially worse (Unfortunately I'll learn this lesson the hard way in an upcoming post)

[ndutton]

Obviously I was not as aware as Peter that this was a 5 year old saga so I'll stop making suggestions and enjoy the story.

[wristwister]

Dang, I missed that too. I was thinking Launchpad and I would be rebuilding A4's together here. Oh well, I get to read on and learn from his amusing mistakes!

[Launchpad McQ]

Obviously I was not as aware as Peter that this was a 5 year old saga so I'll stop making suggestions and enjoy the story.

I hope you'll keep the suggestions coming Neil (and everyone else), even if it's for things I've already done. That's exactly what I'm hoping to accomplish with this thread. To provide an informative and entertaining story of my journey from absolutely zero knowledge of boats/Atomic 4s to having a seaworthy, safe boat powered by a running, reliable Atomic 4. Along the way I seem to have hit every pothole in the road when it comes to this engine and I want others to benefit from my saga. Once I get the posts caught up to present day, there will still be plenty of fresh questions to bounce off the group in order to complete the rebuild.

Dang, I missed that too. I was thinking Launchpad and I would be rebuilding A4's together here. Oh well, I get to read on and learn from his amusing mistakes!

We may very well be at the exact same point in the process wristwister. I'm still rebuilding too, it just took me a looooong time to come to the realization that I needed to perform a complete teardown. In the meantime, I attempted every band-aid, half-measure repair that I could to avoid removing the engine from the boat with varying degrees of success. My problems weren't as obvious as a golf-ball sized hole in the block but ultimately I may end up needing a new block as well. We'll see.

As for my amusing mistakes, buckle up because I've only scratched the surface of sharing my screw ups. From here on out they only get more significantly idiotic, hapless, and avoidable. If by the end of this process you're not totally convinced of the fact that I have no business owning a boat, or even a car for that matter, I'll be shocked. There's a reason I chose Launchpad McQuack from the '80's cartoon "Duck Tales" as my avatar. I felt the overconfident, clueless-but-likeable character from that cartoon who despite the odds always managed to save the day, matched up pretty well with my M.O. when it comes to boats. That being said, people (usually my generation or younger) frequently ask "How did you learn to__?(fill in the blank) and my answer is always the same: “Any way I can.” Whether it's fixing internal combustion engines, rewiring a house, or climbing 14,000' mountains, there seems to be this new prevailing notion that you either acquired the knowledge from a wise Grandpa during childhood otherwise you're destined to tolerate inoperative engines, broken light switches, and an indoor lifestyle. It's ludicrous. Anything that I've truly learned, I've done so by trial and error. But mostly error. My grandparents all passed away when I was young so there wasn't much opportunity to impart any wisdom. And my Dad? Hahaha! Oh man. Let's just say he's the least mechanically-inclined person you've ever met. When I was a kid, he blew up a 1985 Toyota Tercel because he ran it out of oil. It's a good thing my Dad never tried to help me build an Estes model rocket because if he did, I would've ended up with 3rd degree burns and he would've lost an eye. Seriously. It's the same thing I tell my 74 year old mom when it comes to learning how to use a smartphone. Learn by doing. Or in the words of Sir Richard Branson, "Screw it lets do it!" I have a willingness to learn, some tools, a tolerant-if-not-supportive wife, beer in the fridge for when things go wrong, beer in the fridge for when things go right, and I refuse to quit. I don't need anything else to win.

[Launchpad McQ]

I apologize in advance for the frequency of posts (or lack thereof). In addition to this seemingly never-ending boat project, my wife and I just had our first child, and we're (hopefully) nearing the end of a 1-1/2 year major house renovation of our 106 year old house in Denver. What can I say? We like fixing old things that most other people throw in the towel on. I'm sure I'll elaborate more on that adventure later as it relates to the boat.

So I had successfully "unfrozen" the motor and gotten it to crank but decided I needed to remove the head to look at the valves. In removing the head, I guess I was just more lucky than skilled but I didn't encounter any problems that others have reported like broken studs or studs coming out with the nuts attached with the exception of the port rear corner stud. I used two Ikea butter knives as wedges (because I didn't have anything better) tapped gently between the head and the block on the starboard side as to not hit the valve heads. I found the combination of gentle tapping on the side of the head with a 3 pound sledge hammer while wiggling/pulling up by hand got the head off without much fuss. I followed that up with copious amounts of scraping doubled-up graphite head gasket material with a flat blade and 2.5 gallon Craftsman shop vacuum. (Love that thing!)




After I got the head off I inspected everything and discovered the "phantom cooling passages" that lined up with the block but didn't seem to exist in the head. Of course those "holes" aren't present in late model heads as described in this thread (insert thread here once I find it)




Once I got all of the head gasket material removed I noticed the face of the engine block mostly in the vicinity of the #4 cylinder and valves had some "dimpling." I was concerned about it enough to pose the question to the braintrust in this thread:

http://www.moyermarineforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7973&highlight=dimpling

(P.S. I'd like to point out that while the braintrust is adept at combing over posted pictures with their magnifying glass to point out every possible lurking abnormality, when I first posted this picture over 2 years ago, nobody spotted the fact that the pistons in my engine were installed backwards with the arrow stamped "front" on the top of the pistons facing forwards instead of counterintuitively towards the back of the engine as they should. For shame fellas! Haha! Actually it's darn near impossible to see with the reflection of the residual Marvel Mystery Oil sheen on the pistons.)

I still didn't know what I was really looking for, but it seemed like all of the valves were installed and accounted for. However when I cranked the engine using my remote starter switch, I noticed that many of the valves weren't moving up or down. (I think I have a video of that and I'll update this post when I find it.) So with that discovery, I dove back into reading my new favorite forum and came to the conclusion that my engine had the common "stuck valve illness" and I'd need to remove the valve gallery side plate for a look-see. If I was going to do that, why not remove the manifold and carburetor too? Down the rabbit hole we go. Next order of business:

Off with the manifold!


What I learned

• The "phantom holes" in the head aren't actual cooling passages on late-model heads
• Buy head gaskets from Ken in bulk. You'll inevitably use them.

What I'd do differently

• Buy more head gaskets

[ndutton]

Whoever worked on your engine didn't follow their MMI manual very well.

[Launchpad McQ]

That’s the truth Neil. I highly doubt they even owned a Moyer Manual otherwise they were illiterate, neglectful, or both. It gets worse.

[Launchpad McQ]

Hi again fellers. I'm back. Sorry I've been busy changing poopy diapers and bottle feeding at 2am for the past two months (the kid not me). Anyway, back to the story. The intake/exhaust manifold came off without much drama however in doing so, I got yet another lesson in stuck/frozen/rusted fasteners on raw-water cooled A-4's. The three manifold studs were in drastically different conditions. Tapping on two of them with a screwdriver handle, I got a distinct high pitched "tink tink tink" of a well seated fastener. On the front stud however, I discovered the threads in the block had been repaired with a helicoil and the stud made more of a "tank tank tank" noise. Still holding, but requiring the "kid glove treatment" from here on out.


I loosened the two bolts securing the valve gallery side plate (replaced later with the MMI stud kit) and set it aside. A further inspection of the valve stems and springs revealed what I already knew from the top side; the valve springs had rusted in place preventing the valves from moving up and down.



Ring ring ring. "Uh, Hi Ken. Yep its Jonathan. Yep again. Remember those valve springs you said I'd need but I didn't order them?....Yep I need those."



The process of removing the valves is well documented in multiple threads here so I won't reinvent the wheel. If you're new to this part of the A-4 and binge reading through my ridiculous narrative, here's the Clif Notes: Don't let the small valve keepers fall down into the oil pan from the dime-sized weep holes in the bottom of the valve gallery. Those go into the deep dark place where there be dragons and crankshaft bearings 'n stuff.



I brought the valves home and "cleaned them up" on my brass wire wheel. Was this smart?... I don't know I guess. As I mentioned earlier, this was (is) as deep into an engine rebuild as I've ever gone. Since then I've learned much more about the importance of valve seat angle, cut, width, valve/valve guide matching etc (thanks Pete's Garage channel on YouTube!)



What I learned

• Sticky valve springs make the A-4 not run so well

What I'd do differently

• Have a machine shop take a look at the valves before going taking them to a grinding wheel I suppose. Maybe not that big of a deal?

[sastanley]

I don't like that pitting in the lip of the valve in #2 pic. If I was this far in, I might replace the valves too, but that is another $200 if you buy a set..maybe only need a couple if you are lucky? I also don't know the exact part of these valves that are the mating area with the valve seat..maybe the lip is exposed to the combustion chamber and the flat edge above it is the mating surface? The mating surface should be ground to a shine (and the proper angle) with valve lapping compound before re-install . You can see the thin shiny ring before cleaning was where the valve hit the valve guide..I think this is supposed to be the entire flat area of mating surface if the valve is ground to the correct angle.