Catalina 30 will not start properly
 

I have just acquired a 1980 catalina 30 with an A4 engine. It is now in the water, engine worked fine last week. Will not start properly now. Has spark, compression , seems to be getting fuel but will only stay running with starter button engaged. Spark plugs show a carbon fouling. water in carb? how to clearout? help! ps. it took me 2 years to get my mate onboard for this venture (previous experience 10ft dinghy) and kids are now out of college and time for us.

more 1980 catalina
 

June 21. What A coincidence, I too have just acquired a Catalina 30, 1980. I took ownership two weeks ago. Engine was rebuilt and runs like a top, easy to start etc. I found out the hard way about openning and closing the seacock. Second day on the boat I ran the engine for twenty minutes and forgot to push the choke. After sailing a while the engine would not restart. I thought I probably flooded the engine. I could not get it restarted after trying several times later that day. After cranking several times over the afternoon (with the seacock open) I looked at the number one and two plugs and noticed they were fouled. I then remembered I had left the choke on when the engine was running and probably caused the plugs to foul. The engine never did start. So next weekend I was ready to put in in new plugs and found water in number three and four. After nearly having a heart attack, ( I saw a head gasket in my future!) I pumped the cylinders with the plugs out, dried up the water, put in new plugs in and the engine rumbled to life and runs smooth, strong and fine. I have changed the oil since it looked like an Arby's Jamocha milk shake and I am gusssing I will have to do that a couple of times.

I have a couple of questions. The boat has a new fiberglass high lift muffler.The hot side of the exhaust was not replaced. The anti siphon valve was not reinstalled. Does it make sense to reinstall? Will that help a little with this back flow problem?
Secondly you arent supposed to run the pump with out the water source. If you close the seacock and open after the engine starts, arent I going to have some impeller failure because the pump will turn with out a water source? How long can the motor run with the cock closed and not cause an impeller problem? If I am starting the boat alone it takes a more than few seconds for me to climb down in the boat and open/close the valve?

If I think there may be water in the muffler is there an easy way to drain?

I have noticed that the temperature of the engine will get up to and over 200 degrees early in the startup warm up, for a short period of time before backing to 190-180? Is this a function of the engine getting hot before the thermostat opens? It doesnt last long but it makes me a little nervous.

Finally is there any problem with a Catalina 30 having water siphone back into the engine if the boat heels? Is there anyway to avoid the problem. Thanks. Catalina 1771.

CAL 2-30 also known for this?
 

My locked up A4 on my CAL 2-30 has a hot section that goes up into the cooling jacket, without going up and down prior to that.

First, regarding the water in your carburetor:

Catalina 30's are very prone to getting water back into the engine from the exhaust system. The center cabin location of the engine allows practically no space to construct the hot section (or dry section) of the exhaust system so that it extends upward before it drops down and into the inlet of the fiber glass water lift muffler.

This situation results in very little storage capacity within the system for water, and it takes very little cranking of the starter during a hard starting episode before the water lift muffler fills (since the engine isn't starting to blow the water out of the back of the boat with the exhaust) and water then flows back into the exhaust manifold and into the combustion chambers.

The only protection against this threat is to be religious in keeping the raw water through-hull valve closed anytime that the engine is being cranked for any reason and the engine is not running.

Hello Catalina 1771,

Here are the answers to your questions:

1) The boat has a new fiberglass high lift muffler. The anti siphon valve was not reinstalled. Does it make sense to reinstall the anti siphon valve, and will that help a little with this back flow problem?

Short answer: Absolutely. Long answer: Absolutely.

2) If you close the seacock and open it only after the engine starts, aren't you going to have some impeller failures because the pump will turn without a water source?

Even if you're starting the boat alone, you won't likely damage the impeller in just the few seconds it takes to climb down in the boat and open/close the valve.

3) If you think there may be water in the muffler, is there an easy way to drain it?

I don't know about your muffler, but most mufflers have a drain plug in their base to drain the water during winterizing.

4) I have noticed that the temperature of the engine will get up to and over 200 degrees early in the startup warm up, for a short period of time before backing to 190-180? Is this a function of the engine getting hot before the thermostat opens? It doesn't last long but it makes me a little nervous.

It does sound (at a minimum) like the thermostat is sticking when you first start the engine. I recommend that you remove, clean and inspect the thermostat in a pot of hot water to verify its operation. It should start to open by 150 degrees, and be fully open by 185.

5) Finally is there a problem with a Catalina 30 having water siphon back into the engine if the boat heels?

Yes, Catalina 30's are very prone to getting water back into the engine from the exhaust system. The center cabin location of the engine allows practically no space to construct the hot section (or dry section) of the exhaust system so that it extends upward before it drops down and into the inlet of the fiber glass water lift muffler.

Water typically backs up during long periods of cranking a hard starting engine, while healing during sailing, and even while the boat sits idle for several days with the raw water through-hull open and the siphon valve being stuck closed.

The best protection against water backing up from the exhaust system of a Catalina 30 is to be religious in keeping the raw water through-hull valve closed anytime that the engine is not running and by keeping your anti-siphon valve clean and functional.

Best regards,

Don Moyer

DId not fog this winter.
 

I bought my boat on the hard this winter and the owner did not fog the engine when he shut it down in Oct. What is the best process to prepare an A4 that was not fogged? Replace plugs, fog cyclinders now, turn engine over?? I am new to the A4 but learning quickly. Also, what is the best way to drain the gas tank? I siphoned most of the fuel out, but about 1/2" remains. It is a '69 Pearson Wanderer.
Thanks!
WMG

Hi Wayne,

Welcome aboard.

Well, the short answer is we don't "fog" the A-4. We run antifreeze into them.
Where do you live and has it been freezing? That will give us a good idea of what you can expect or watch out for.

Welcome Wayne
 

The way I 'fog' our A4 is with Marvel Mystery Oil poured or sprayed into each cylinder,
start the engine for a few seconds and enjoy the smoke coming out of the exhaust and let it sit for the winter.
This procedure can be done a few times a season, or more if necessary.
I'd try it as soon as you can if I were you.
Hopefully your engine still runs; they are pretty tough.

Maurice is correct; we run some RV anti-freeze through the cooling system and drain a few fittings as well.

As for draining the gas tank I used this pump http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?...5206&id=119134
earlier this spring to remove nearly 10 gallons of old fuel into 5 gallon containers. The last gallon or so of fuel is shown in the picture I'm attaching. Not good!

I am either stupid and/or lazy so I apologize for the oversize picture.

Late fogging??
 

Thanks all. The engine was drained and the plugs were left out; it was left dry this winter. I put the plugs back in, replaced the thermostat, drained the gas tank (with a simple pump I made w/ hand bulb primer and outboard fuel hose). I was asking about fogging the spark plug cylinders, or should I pour in MMOil and turn it a couple of times? I am going to replace the plugs after I motor to my mooring to burn off the MMOil. The engine was really well maintained by the PO.

Another Catalina 30 question. I have (and confirmed someone else with the same undiagnosed problem). Engine fires cold great and runs well. But after sailing it needs a lot of cranking. So much so that I’m closing the raw water after getting water in my oil twice this summer.

Since it runs great once it’s going I haven’t been able to wrap my head around it. The fuel line isn’t really close enough to the heat of the engine to get vapour locked (if that’s a issue).

Any ideas or experience with this situation out there?

SOUNDS LIKE A CHOKE PROBLEM
 

A properly tuned A4 will need brief full choke to start even when it is fully warmed up. Are you using a bit of choke when you try a warm start?

Let's do the easy stuff first. Be sure the choke is opening and closing fully when you think it is. Others will be along with more ideas.

Welcome to the forum. You will get more responses if you start a new thread.

ex TRUE GRIT

Edit: Is there a PCV valve on the engine?

Thanks! I will start a new threat perhaps....

No PVC mod on mine yet. I do NOT choke when it’s warm... but that’s an interesting though. That would mean its not getting the fuel it wants to light off initially I suppose.

Try "brief" full choke when you warm start. Exactly how much choke and for how long I can't say - you will have to get the feel for your particular engine.
The way I understand is the updraft carburetor design results in to lean of a mixture to start a warm engine so choke is needed.

ex TRUE GRIT

So I tried choke and a bit more open throttle, it fired right up after a 5 hrs regatta! Fingers crossed that’s the trick!

Engine won't start!
 

I bought my Catalina 30 last year. Engine started up while on the hard with the owner. Now in the water it won't start.

New Fuel filter
Changed oil
New spark plugs
New fuel pump
Disassembled and cleaned Carburetor
Disassembled and tuned up starter.
New charged battery
New Coil
Thought it might be electric ignition - changed back to points. good sparks
Friday---Progress, engine started to turn over, but didn't pick up. Though it might be carburetor, which has excessive amounts of gas in it.(more than just a puddle) Dissembled and looked at carburetor again. Now Sunday wont even ignite. Still has good spark. Help. I need to move this boat out of this slip.

Small Update: Engine turned over for a moment. I didn't have time to adjust the choke before it died.

Rhoderunner, you should start a new thread for your issues.

I see you have "thrown" a lot of parts at the engine and any one of those could be the problem. This is a classic case of not diagnosing the problem first. You will need to clarify a few things before anything can be considered.

First what was the problem, IE it died, would not start, would not "crank" over or? What did you do and in what order with what results would help.

Be sure that when you are cranking that the water valve is OFF.

Lets start with spark. Did you check for spark or just change out the ignition?

Hope to see a "new thread" in trouble shooting.

Dave Neptune :eek: