Ethanol

[Larry in Maine]

I am getting mixed feedback on the importance of using non-ethanol fuel. I'd appreciate it if some of you experienced A-4 owners could post some advice on this topic. I've recently replaced my carburetor and I want to prevent the type of fuel problems I've had in the past. Usually I fill a five gallon container with regular gas from my local gas station and use that. It's much cheaper than going to my local marina. I'd also like some advice about using Marvel Mystery oil vs. SeaFoam in my gas tank. Thanks.

[Dave Neptune]

I ran nothing but regular grade E-fuel in California from a gas station as it was all that was available. The problem is not necessarily with the E-fuel but how you use it. As it does not have the "shelf life" of non E-fuel. Letting it sit is when the problems manifest as the E-fuel can absorb water and being in a marina as opposed to a garage only makes more moisture for it to absorb. I ran my engine a lot motoring to Catalina in the mornings and then sailing home about 3 weekends a month from March to the end of October. I never used any fuel stabilizer and NEVER had a water in the fuel related issue. I also never had the fuel brake down from sitting to long as I used the boat a great deal. I have heard that the E-fuel breaks down in about a year and some say 6 months which I seriously doubt.

As far as additives all I used it was 2-stroke synthetic WC-3 rated oil. I used this instead of the Marvel as the WC-3 is designed to stay mixed in the fuel much better and has superior lubrication qualities when mixed in gasoline. I ran it for 34 years and mixed it at about 100:1. It did not smoke and my engine ran flawlessly every time out, never an issue. I used an EI, a good fuel separator/filter and a polishing filter too. I replaced the main filter every 2~3 years as well as the polishing one. I always cut the main filter apart to inspect and no water. Over the 34 years I did suck the krud off the bottom of the tank a few times so it would not "build up" and never got more than a cupful or so.

I have also been a big proponent of never mixing more than one additive ever as some additives when mixed create there own krud. I have known a few who run 3~4 additives and have trouble constantly and in most of those cases they used the engine very little for day sailing.

It is not the E-fuel that is the problem it is how much you rotate it out by using the engine.

Dave Neptune

[sastanley]

Exactly what Dave said. That being said, I only averaged 60-75 hours a year on my A4, and I ran E-Zero because of the less usage, and I can now get it at my local gas station and hump it to the boat in 5-gallon jerry cans. I also took Dave's advice and the last couple seasons ran 100:1 synthetic 2-stroke oil. I run E-zero in all of my other 'small engines' like pressure washer, generator, blower, chain saw, etc., because they tend to sit a long time in between uses. In my thirsty power boat, I run E-10 as I go thru a lot of fuel, and have a hard time justifying the premium cost of E-zero in 230 gallon chunks. I do use marine StaBil in the power boat.

[Al Schober]

I basically agree with Dave except I don't know that the fuel 'breaks down'. I do know that the alcohol attracts water and that at some point the water/alcohol mix will separate and settle to the bottom of the fuel tank. When this mix gets up to the level of the fuel pickup tube in the tank, you have a problem. I made it an annual Spring ritual to pump some fluid from the bottom of the tank (NOT using the fuel pickup tube) to see what was there. With my Tartan 30 (side galley) I could get to the bottom of the tank using a length of 1/4" rigid tube (copper or PEX) through the fuel fill. I'd pump into a glass jug so I could see what was coming out. Invariably there would be some water phase with gas on top of it. Gas would go back into the tank while the other would be discarded.
Keeping the tank clean is key to a happy engine (and Admiral).

[ndutton]

The only verifiable problems directly related to ethanol-laced fuel I've ever heard of were both in the very early days. Deterioration of rubber fuel hoses that were not ethanol rated and deterioration of fiberglass fuel tanks common in power boats. Other than that I've run a steady diet of E-10 with 1% MMO for 20 years and no problems.

[hanleyclifford]

I too have run E-10 in my engines fom the beginning. I do not use any additives. The important thing is to completely drain the fuel system when the boat is stored. Do not think you can just add Stabil - it will not work with E-10.

[joe_db]

I am getting mixed feedback on the importance of using non-ethanol fuel. I'd appreciate it if some of you experienced A-4 owners could post some advice on this topic. I've recently replaced my carburetor and I want to prevent the type of fuel problems I've had in the past. Usually I fill a five gallon container with regular gas from my local gas station and use that. It's much cheaper than going to my local marina. I'd also like some advice about using Marvel Mystery oil vs. SeaFoam in my gas tank. Thanks.

You can make ethanol-fuel work. Rule 1 is NO WATER. Make SURE your fuel fill gasket is good!
If all the rubber bits in the fuel system are relatively new and ethanol-proof and you follow Rule 1 you are off to a good start.
Marvel Mystery Oil is for the engine. Use Seafoam or Biobor to combat ethanol effects. For an off-season as long as Maine has I would be tempted to drain the tank at layup and use the gas in my car.
I used to drag avgas down to the boat in cold months, but it was too huge of a pain to keep up with.

[tenders]

As prescribed here, I use StaBil in its recommended dosage in all fuel that ever goes into the tank to counteract the effects of ethanol over time, and 2oz of Marvel Mystery Oil per 5 gallons of gas, which is DOUBLE the recommended dosage, to keep the valves happy in my cold, thermostatless installation.

I have, knock on wood, never had a carb issue although I use jerrycanned, ethanol-laden, 87 octane fuel straight from the cheapest pump between my home and the boat, and I have had two seasons in the last 20 years where the boat was not launched and the fuel just got old. Exhaust from 18-month-old fuel treated like this smells a little odd but the engine ran just fine.

[Sam]

I too use Stabill or equivalent with some MMO. My fuel fill is on the cockpit floor and the bottom of my monel tank is about two feet below the floor. I had some water in the tank a number of years back and since took some advice from the forum and use a stick transfer pump to pump out the very bottom couple of gallons [that is where the water would settle] into a couple of jugs Sometimes I can see a little separation but mostly discoloration, I just toss this gas into a recycling tank and chalk it up to boating expenses or dependability insurance.