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Old 05-29-2020, 05:34 PM
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Electrical panel

May be an overkill, but sure would look great in a Catalina 27...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/AC-DC-Elect...AAAOSwQd5clyEu

Asking price is charity-high, but likely they would take a couple hundred $ offer
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  #2   IP: 24.152.132.140
Old 05-29-2020, 08:50 PM
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Don't you dare. Even if you could somehow utilize all those circuits on a 27 footer, the price is insane. Brand new that's maybe a $500.00 panel. Used, half of that.

Check out Shawn's panel he picked up used for $200.00 IIRC.
http://www.moyermarineforum.com/foru...8&postcount=32
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1977 Catalina 30
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prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22
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Old 05-29-2020, 09:06 PM
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Or the real deal (from our host) customizable and not expensive

EDIT: Oops. Wrong kind of panel. Sorry, I should have looked at the links before posting.
As the other guys said, that one is overkill for sure.
I completely re-wired my 30 foot and still didn't fill up a modest size AC panel.
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Last edited by roadnsky; 05-30-2020 at 10:50 AM. Reason: didn't do my homework / wrong kind of panel
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Old 05-29-2020, 09:49 PM
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That thing is overpriced by about $1000
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Old 05-30-2020, 07:31 PM
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... but is sure is cool, in a retro way. The price is definitely not
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Old 05-30-2020, 09:25 PM
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Hey, I probably could have afforded a breaker that said 'Air Conditioner' - although I didn't have one.
Kinda like moving into my new digs. Checked out the electrical panel, which had a 220V breaker labeled 'SPA'. Followed the cable but didn't find a spa - suspect it originally connected to a big Jacuzzi in small room in the W wing which is now a computer/piano room. It has nice french doors to close it off and an exhaust fan. Any spa is long gone.
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Old 05-31-2020, 08:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Schober View Post
Hey, I probably could have afforded a breaker that said 'Air Conditioner' - although I didn't have one.
In my case I actually DID install an Air Conditioner so I needed the circuit on the panel.
(I have since taken Neil's advice and made it a GFC circuit)
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Last edited by roadnsky; 05-31-2020 at 08:05 PM.
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Old 05-31-2020, 08:05 PM
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I advise EVERY 120V circuit onboard be GFI protected.
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Old 06-02-2020, 11:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ndutton View Post
Don't you dare. Even if you could somehow utilize all those circuits on a 27 footer, the price is insane. Brand new that's maybe a $500.00 panel. Used, half of that.

Check out Shawn's panel he picked up used for $200.00 IIRC.
http://www.moyermarineforum.com/foru...8&postcount=32
That sounds about right, Neil, but I don't remember exactly. After a bit of research, I learned this was a Catalina 42 DC panel. I have not filled the panel, but I am still trying! I am probably about 70% capacity at present, plus I have all the 'plugged' holes still to go. The best upgrade to this panel was cutting out the analog gauges for some Blue Seas volt and amp, plus a 2 x 2.4 USB charger. I do not have radar, but I re-purposed and wired that 20 amp circuit to my washdown pump, and the "shower drain pump", is a remote 3-port USB charging circuit for phones and crap.

surcouf, not sure what you are looking for but I still have the 1977 vintage C-30 panel which is 6 or 7 circuits. It is old school glass fuses though, so, let me know if you want more info.
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"Twice Around" - '77 Catalina 30, #511 with original A-4 & MMI manifold.
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http://www.moyermarine.com/forums/signaturepics/sigpic3231_6.gif

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  #10   IP: 137.103.82.227
Old 06-03-2020, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ndutton View Post
I advise EVERY 120V circuit onboard be GFI protected.
All my outlets have GFCI protection. My inverters have a weird setup where hot and neutral are both 60 volts above ground, which I thought would hose up the GFCIs but it does not 99% of the stuff I plug in does not care, but one laptop power supply refuses to work. It has a three-prong cord and apparently the Chinese "engineers" decided to go hot-ground instead of hot-neutral to power it
NOTHING that runs on AC a boat should EVER be powered from hot and ground! I worked on a boat that had neutral and ground switched and the air conditioner discharge water shooting onto the floating dock would shock the crap out of you

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Old 06-03-2020, 02:23 PM
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Joe, bonding your inverter neutral to ground ahead of any GFI protection will stabilize the voltage but will not solve the laptop power supply problem assuming it is downstream from a GFI. The Chinese used the ground for an internal sentinel circuit which was done universally up to about 25 years ago.

The source neutral-ground bond is still required on all services, transformer secondaries and generator outputs. Applicable to this discussion are generators and inverters aka Separately Derived Systems.

Further reading:
https://iaeimagazine.org/magazine/fe...rived-systems/
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prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22
Had my hands in a few others

Last edited by ndutton; 06-03-2020 at 10:36 PM.
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Old 06-03-2020, 07:06 PM
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Im going ghetto and making my own panel. This was a learning journey and not for the faint of heart. Don't take this as a recommendation.

I haunted second-hand shops to get the NOS meters and ordered the BlueSea flush breakers and all the biits from Redden Marine(now Lumi Island Supply).
I put cool little LEDs on the breakers to indicate live circuits. I considered using a buss bar for the common positive side to eliminate all those wires, but it looked like a pain to assemble and/or repair in the field. Maintenance was always in the considerations.
This was about $250 worth of parts and about 40 hours of slow work as I drank beer. The research hours are beyond counting.
All parts are marine wire and connectors and all soldered and sealed with shrink tube or self-sealing wrap.
Clear panel is salvaged lexan and mahogany from my neighbors kitchen remodel.

The crummy photo shows how the smaller hinged section with just the breakers and meters swings out for inspection. I want to route the heavy positive cable so it will swing with the panel with out too much stress. This smaller section was designed so the back of it will be protected from any unwanted stuff flopping around and contacting the positive terminal blocks. The cutout was made to accommodate the bend of the wires going to the breakers.
I will put the shunt for the Ammeter and the negative terminal block near the bottom behind the big unhinged part panel. Visible but protected.

R.
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Last edited by lat 64; 06-03-2020 at 07:24 PM.
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  #13   IP: 100.36.65.17
Old 06-04-2020, 07:09 AM
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Russ,

Nice job. If you ever want to create a custon engraved anodized Aluninum panel for that, try Front Panel Express:
http://www.frontpanelexpress.com/ .

Their software is very easy and intuitive. The pre-coronavirus turnaround was only 5 days. I like the fact that the price is calculated "A la Carte", and you can see the impact of every hole or bevel you specify.
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Old 06-04-2020, 03:45 PM
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I found it useful to run just one wire to each circuit breaker and then have a terminal strip behind the panel for the various connections.
Before and after:
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Old 06-05-2020, 03:04 AM
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size matters

Thanks Ed.

Nice Joe,
I see little wires. Are those for LEDs too?

I protected my ammeter and voltmeter with 1-amp fuses. I wonder; is there resistance in the fuse that might drop the voltage(50 millivolts in this case) to the meter, thus changing calibration with the matching shunt?

After I made this panel, I learned that my father-in-law was putting in the same ammeter in his experimental airplane. I thought "cool! we have something in common, something to talk about"
He fried two meters while sorting out an issue with the shunt that was too small. I guess with the whole airplane's electrical system switched on and the alternator charging a low battery, it was too many amps. It melted the shunt and then took out the meter. At least I think that was the sequence.
I tried to interrogate him about what went wrong, but only got an icy stare.
Never interrogate a father-in-law.

So now I'm mister smartypants about correct shunt size and stuff. At least until my setup starts smoking.
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Old 06-05-2020, 09:26 AM
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My meters are cheap FleaBay specials. I am not sure about melting shunts, if you are using say a 30 amp shunt in a circuit that carries up to 200 amps, not only would the shunt possibly melt the meter reading would be WAY off too.
The meter shown measures 200 amps in or out of the battery. If I start the engine off the house bank I can see the starter drawing about 120-125 amps.
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Old 06-06-2020, 03:45 AM
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I will most likely isolate the starter from this panel. This panel's ammeter is just for the draw from the battery to all the goodies in the house circuits.
The engine will be isolated as separate entity. I still have the rather rough ammeter in the engine panel that shows draw and charge of the altenator.
And then;
solar panel circuits,
AC circuits, etc.
.....ahhhhhmy head hurts. Like I tried to insinuate in earlier posts, I'm learning slowly.

I'm sure Neil is having a chuckle reading my 'lectronic efforts.

R.
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Old 06-06-2020, 07:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lat 64 View Post
.....ahhhhhmy head hurts. Like I tried to insinuate in earlier posts, I'm learning slowly.

I'm sure Neil is having a chuckle reading my 'lectronic efforts.
Nope, not me. There is nothing like designing and building your own distribution panel to advance your understanding of electricity and nobody will be in a better position to troubleshoot in the future. It looks to me like you're doing just fine.

Part of the learning is realizing why these panels cost so much.
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prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22
Had my hands in a few others

Last edited by ndutton; 06-06-2020 at 07:57 AM.
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Old 06-06-2020, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lat 64 View Post
Thanks Ed.

Nice Joe,
I see little wires. Are those for LEDs too?

I protected my ammeter and voltmeter with 1-amp fuses. I wonder; is there resistance in the fuse that might drop the voltage(50 millivolts in this case) to the meter, thus changing calibration with the matching shunt?

After I made this panel, I learned that my father-in-law was putting in the same ammeter in his experimental airplane. I thought "cool! we have something in common, something to talk about"
He fried two meters while sorting out an issue with the shunt that was too small. I guess with the whole airplane's electrical system switched on and the alternator charging a low battery, it was too many amps. It melted the shunt and then took out the meter. At least I think that was the sequence.
I tried to interrogate him about what went wrong, but only got an icy stare.
Never interrogate a father-in-law.

So now I'm mister smartypants about correct shunt size and stuff. At least until my setup starts smoking.
The little wires are for LEDs. Each circuit has an LED and the panel is backlit with LEDs as well to read the labels in the dark. I can switch the panel backlights off if I want to. I have 2 8 circuit panels and 2 three circuit.
Here is the front side (generic, not my boat):
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