Return to the home page...

Go Back   Moyer Marine Atomic 4 Community - Home of the Afourians > Discussion Topics > Fuel System

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1   IP: 99.7.118.97
Old 06-12-2018, 05:08 PM
bcbristoll bcbristoll is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: St. Francis, Wis.
Posts: 18
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Type of fuel for atomic4

Hey everyone just wondering what type of fuel to use in my atomic4. The downloaded manual I have suggests 90 octane....In our area reg is 87 midrange 89 and premium ~92. I've know that you don't want to use anything with ethanol but just wondering what is the best choice??
Reply With Quote
  #2   IP: 172.95.97.58
Old 06-12-2018, 05:18 PM
Dave Neptune Dave Neptune is offline
Afourian MVP, Professor Emeritus
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Grove, Oklahoma
Posts: 5,035
Thanks: 711
Thanked 1,289 Times in 839 Posts
bcbristol, those old rating numbers are far different than todays. The 90 was an leaded regular grade of gasoline good for up to about 8:5 to 1 compression where as the new regular unleaded is good for up to 10:1.

Our A-4's are at 6.5:to 1 so finding a good fast burning fuel is problematic. Your best bet is todays regular unleaded without the ethanol if you can find it. If we could find some 83 rated regular things would be great.

You will make more HP and torque with regular fuel and such low compression. Running premium is a waste of time money and horse power.

Dave Neptune
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Dave Neptune For This Useful Post:
sastanley (06-16-2018)
  #3   IP: 24.224.194.51
Old 06-12-2018, 05:38 PM
Mo's Avatar
Mo Mo is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Halifax NS,
Posts: 4,470
Thanks: 292
Thanked 411 Times in 272 Posts
Shell v-power currently doesn't have ethanol in Canada ( I looked up BC) that's the high octane. Here in NS there's no ethanol in high test either. I have used high test in the A4 since the ethanol came out here in the lower grades...works fine.
__________________
Mo

"Odyssey"
1976 C&C 30 MKI

The pessimist complains about the wind.
The optimist expects it to change.
The realist adjusts the sails.
...Sir William Arthur Ward.
Reply With Quote
  #4   IP: 99.7.118.97
Old 06-13-2018, 09:26 AM
bcbristoll bcbristoll is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: St. Francis, Wis.
Posts: 18
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanks for the info. Just trying to be sure.
Reply With Quote
  #5   IP: 67.149.7.16
Old 06-14-2018, 08:50 AM
Robs Hubris Robs Hubris is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 37
Thanks: 29
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
After using regular unleaded for years, I switched to regular leaded (more expensive, sold by marina station here in Michigan). I have noted immediate and lasting improvements in my old A4's performance. Just a happier engine.
best,
rob
__________________
Hubris
Catalina 30 on Lake St. Clair, Michigan
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Robs Hubris For This Useful Post:
Graham (06-14-2018)
  #6   IP: 174.199.13.209
Old 06-16-2018, 04:49 PM
Splash1 Splash1 is offline
Frequent Contributor
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 5
Thanks: 2
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
I just came back from Florida where I saw a gas station (Wawa brand) that sold gasoline with no ethanol for boaters only. Thanks to all for the tips.
David Dill
Pearson 30 #319
Middleton RI
Reply With Quote
  #7   IP: 71.178.88.201
Old 06-16-2018, 11:55 PM
sastanley's Avatar
sastanley sastanley is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Solomons, MD
Posts: 7,016
Thanks: 1,134
Thanked 600 Times in 442 Posts
Thumbs up

I am in the mid-Atlantic area and there are several retailers that sell NO-Ethanol fuel. Some are roadside and some are water based.

I've found https://www.pure-gas.org/ to be an excellent resource.
__________________
-Shawn
"Holiday" - '89 Alura 35 #109
"Twice Around" - '77 C-30, #511 with original A-4 & MMI manifold - SOLD! (no longer a two boat owner!!)
http://www.moyermarine.com/forums/signaturepics/sigpic3231_6.gif
Reply With Quote
  #8   IP: 73.19.60.36
Old 06-20-2018, 09:03 PM
Boat Boat is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Kirkland, WA
Posts: 172
Thanks: 1
Thanked 14 Times in 13 Posts
Shilshole Marina here in Seattle has non ethanol regular. i think its 89 octane
__________________
'69 Newport 30 MKI Hull #20
Reply With Quote
  #9   IP: 137.200.32.38
Old 06-21-2018, 08:10 AM
joe_db's Avatar
joe_db joe_db is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 4,474
Thanks: 49
Thanked 1,026 Times in 721 Posts
I used to fill my tank with 100 octane no-ethanol avgas for the winter. It does not absorb water, but other than that the engine ran the same as ever and I decided some fuel treatment was cheaper and easier anyway.
Reply With Quote
  #10   IP: 24.152.132.140
Old 06-21-2018, 08:15 AM
ndutton's Avatar
ndutton ndutton is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 9,619
Thanks: 198
Thanked 2,208 Times in 1,425 Posts
Joe, I just read an anecdote about an experimental aircraft that used ethanol blend and experienced engine failure purportedly due to water absorption in the fuel. Suddenly the report disappeared as I was about to ask a barrage of questions about it.
__________________
Neil
1977 Catalina 30
San Pedro, California
prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22
Had my hands in a few others
Reply With Quote
  #11   IP: 137.200.32.38
Old 06-21-2018, 08:28 AM
joe_db's Avatar
joe_db joe_db is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 4,474
Thanks: 49
Thanked 1,026 Times in 721 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ndutton View Post
Joe, I just read an anecdote about an experimental aircraft that used ethanol blend and experienced engine failure purportedly due to water absorption in the fuel. Suddenly the report disappeared as I was about to ask a barrage of questions about it.
Didn't want to creep the thread - but here goes.
I told them it was a bad idea. The aircraft fuel system has a water separator and just like ours, it only works if the water will separate They went back to avgas after that or ethanol free fuel, which is the only auto fuel approved for (some) aircraft.
Reply With Quote
  #12   IP: 24.152.132.140
Old 06-21-2018, 08:43 AM
ndutton's Avatar
ndutton ndutton is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 9,619
Thanks: 198
Thanked 2,208 Times in 1,425 Posts
I'd be interested in knowing what testing connected this engine's failure to ethanol caused water absorption. If that were actually the cause, where did the water come from because it must have been a helluva lot.

What is different between the low compression engine in your anecdote and ours? My engine has been on a steady diet of E10 for at least 13 years and doubtless many more prior to my ownership without a single issue that was attributed to fuel contamination. Considering it has lived its entire life in the marine environment (the highest humidity), how can this possibly be? 1% MMO is the only additive I've ever used.
__________________
Neil
1977 Catalina 30
San Pedro, California
prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22
Had my hands in a few others
Reply With Quote
  #13   IP: 137.200.32.38
Old 06-21-2018, 08:52 AM
joe_db's Avatar
joe_db joe_db is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 4,474
Thanks: 49
Thanked 1,026 Times in 721 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ndutton View Post
I'd be interested in knowing what testing connected this engine's failure to ethanol caused water absorption. If that were actually the cause, where did the water come from because it must have been a helluva lot.

What is different between the low compression engine in your anecdote and ours? My engine has been on a steady diet of E10 for at least 13 years and doubtless many more prior to my ownership without a single issue that was attributed to fuel contamination. Considering it has lived its entire life in the marine environment (the highest humidity), how can this possibly be? 1% MMO is the only additive I've ever used.
I have got an *entire quart* of water out of an airplane that sat through a few thunderstorms on the ramp in North Eleuthera. Draining fuel and checking for water is a routine preflight activity. Between old fuel cap gaskets that are not perfect, sitting through numerous temperature changes, and flying through rain at 150 knots, water can get in there. Most planes have at least 3 drain points and after Cessna got sued over a water contamination fatal accident, some of their airplanes have around 11 drains!
A lot of water indicates time to buy new fuel cap gaskets, but even with good ones it was not unusual to get a few drops of water in a plane I had flown the night before. Water can also freeze in fuel lines. A buddy of mine had an engine failure for just that reason and now his model aircraft have drains at a low point that did not have drains before. No one realized there was a gentle slope back up to the water separator from a few feet back and that was enough to trap enough water to freeze.
http://download.aopa.org/epilot/2010...034.1529585724

Last edited by joe_db; 06-21-2018 at 08:57 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #14   IP: 24.152.132.140
Old 06-21-2018, 09:23 AM
ndutton's Avatar
ndutton ndutton is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 9,619
Thanks: 198
Thanked 2,208 Times in 1,425 Posts
Thanks Joe. That speaks to the practice I've applied all along about keeping water out in the first place rather than counting on filtration to manage it. I always felt filtration was the last line of defense, not the entire defense.

My fill plate O-ring is replaced bi-annually as regular maintenance, my fuel is carried via jerry jug to the boat from a high volume gas station, (a practice in clear violation of marina rules). In fact, I'm topping off a tank tonight under cover of darkness. Getting caught risks eviction but it's a risk I choose to take to avoid fuel dock swill.

I read nothing in your posts or the link you provided that positively connects this particular experimental aircraft's engine failure to ethanol or said another way, that ethanol caused the failure. However, digging deeper by researching an FAA SAIB referenced in the link I did find the treatment by the FAA prohibiting ethanol blends in piston powered aircraft:
https://www.daec.de/fileadmin/user_u...k/CE-07-06.pdf
__________________
Neil
1977 Catalina 30
San Pedro, California
prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22
Had my hands in a few others
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Polishing Filter GregH Fuel System 27 05-05-2018 11:43 PM
Engine runs for a couple minutes, stops hard, no fuel flow pdecker Troubleshooting 30 05-28-2015 01:17 PM
Fuel Shutdown Issue gdasw Fuel System 17 06-20-2013 08:53 AM
Fuel-Related Engine Shutdowns Don Moyer Fuel System 32 02-18-2011 04:36 PM
Facet fuel pump notes rigspelt Fuel System 3 01-03-2009 01:31 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:50 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.


Universal® is a registered trademark of Westerbeke Corporation

Copyright © 2004-2024 Moyer Marine Inc.

All Rights Reserved