71 Ericson 29

[toddster]

Having a "removable" cutless carrier makes frequent cutless bearing changes a real snap!

er...yeah. I guess I could have unbolted it and slid it over the shaft. Instead of spending an hour pressing out the engine coupler under impossible conditions at arms length in the back of the engine compartment to free the shaft. But it feels like more of an accomplishment that way. D'oh!

Really, I didn't mess with it because I wasn't confident that I could get it realigned correctly. Assuming that it's correct now.

[ndutton]

Unbolting the cutless carrier (bottom half of the strut) introduces another critical element in alignment which few if any others have to do.

Not that it's aligned correctly now . . .

Is anybody bothered by the length of shaft beyond the bearing besides me??

[hanleyclifford]

Possible source of vibration?

Neil, yes it does look strange and could be a problem especially if the prop were unbalanced. But moving it forward brings it closer to the hull which reduces it's efficiency. Still, I would be inclined to shorten up a little in this case and go to a 3 blade prop of smaller diameter and greater pitch.

[toddster]

Well the new prop has an inch less radius, but I am still reluctant to put it closer to the hull, or change too many variables in one experiment.

[toddster]

new prop doesn't fit

Well, just argh! The new prop arrived today and it doesn't fit the old shaft. The taper isn't remotely the same and the keyway is narrower.



Now that I look at it, the old prop has a sleeve of some material inserted to make it fit. It was probably made for a 1" shaft. In fact, it has no taper. Its bore is 16mm front and back. The new one is 19mm at the back and 15mm at the front. So the scenario of having the old prop as a spare is out the window. Now what are the chances that there's something funky about the shaft adapter at the other end?

Excuse me while I go pound my head against the keel.

[hanleyclifford]

Uh Oh

Looks like you are on the business end of the PO's cobble job. Since you have a prop for 1'' shaft you will probably be better off to get a new shaft and coupling. This will give you the opportunity to adjust prop position. You will need to select a different cutless bearing but that is no problem.

[ndutton]

Dude, everything you come across with this driveline gives me the shakes:

No taper at the prop end, a Nylok nut holding the prop on as opposed to a castle nut and cotter pin, a sleeve inside the propeller hub, the hoakiest strut arrangement I've ever seen and held together with steel bolts, waaaaay to much shaft after the strut, more shaft wear at the cutless bearing than I've ever seen and who knows what on the inside.

I can't imagine this being professionally done. If it were me . . . . well, let's not go there. My approach - as usual - would be extreme, major surgery and wholesale replacement from one end to the other. But when it was done . . . wait, I said I wasn't going there.

[toddster]

So, if I order up a new shaft that is 2.25" shorter than the old one, that would leave 3/4" between the bearing and the new prop. It looks like that would give me about 1.5" clearance to the hull. If I went to 1.5" behind the bearing, the gap to the hull opens up to about 2.25," Similar to what it was before. I'm not sure how much difference that makes, except it would give me the ability to go back to a 12" prop, if desired.

Why would I need a different cutless? One is already on the way out in UPS limbo.

[hanleyclifford]

If you presently have a 3/4" shaft the new cutless will not work for the 1" shaft.

[ndutton]

Why would I need a different cutless? One is already on the way out in UPS limbo.

I'm a victim of my past and as I warned, my suggestions are often extreme.

I've personally installed between 50 - 100 A4's and the complete drivelines too. I'd start with a clean fiberglass hull, no holes or 'nuttin and have at it, engine, shaft log and strut with bearing. I'd cut the holes where they were needed, set up the alignment and fiberglass everything in place, bolts for the strut too. Back then (40 years ago) we maintained 1" behind the strut for the prop hub and 1.5" clearance from the prop tip to the hull. This was all part of the setup.

If this were my boat, I'd start from scratch and get it right. But it's not my boat, is it? You have to do what's right for you. There are plenty of knowledgeable guys here with different ideas.

By the way, the adjustable strut also means it can get out of adjustment. My preference for a fixed, solid strut is born from my experience. I've said it before, there's not much to go wrong with a solid hunk of bronze.

Hanley:
Since you have a prop for 1'' shaft you will probably be better off to get a new shaft and coupling.

The existing shaft log I.D. may be a dealbreaker for a 1" shaft. There's usually not much clearance to start with.

[67c&ccorv]

I am constantly amazed at what some P/O's think is appropriate repair on a vessel.

Especially in an area of high stress - low tolerance fittings like a prop shaft and associated drive train.



Wow!

Caveat emptor...

[sastanley]

toddster..I have no visual yet on what is going on here, as I cannot see any of your pics at work.

I know you don't want to hear this, but what started for me as a simple, "I am going to haul the boat for a week in early June, paint the bottom and change my prop", turned into 10 weeks on the hard replacing everything behind the A-4 output shaft, except for the prop strut, including a shaft log repair from years of misalignment. - so I feel your pain.

At this point, I'd take a deep breath, take a step back and assess the whole situation, and then decide on how to proceed given your individual situation ($$, time, skills, etc.)

Patience here..By the way, as soft as lead is, it will still hurt...

So, Neil, as a matter of curiosity..how is a prop strut installed?? I am thinking about how they are built..a single cast piece right? Is it external with a backing plate on the inside & simply bolts thru?

[toddster]

At this point, it would not be that much bigger of a deal to replace the strut. I just have to let go of the idea of actually sailing this summer. It's a process.

This is already week 12 of the haul-out. I keep writing rent checks for an empty slip. The bottom needed a lot more work than I had counted on. I had to strip out every scrap of the (lethal) wiring and re-wire from scratch. (A few toys were added.) I didn't imagine that I would solve all of this boat's problems in one haul-out. But there end up being just too many that need to be addressed before it re-floats.

As far as the strut construction - typically they are bolted through the hull then the inside part is embedded in resin to hold it immobile. Replacing them involves excavating the resin to locate the head of the strut, then re-pouring. (Oddly enough, most of the boats that I looked at buying needed a new strut.) Here's a detail from the Ericson manual:



What's weird about this strut (other than its form) is that there is no such wedge on the inside. Well, there is a small wedge, but the log goes through it. The existing strut is bolted-through aft of the wedge. I'll need to investigate this more next weekend. To even see what's going on, I'll need to remove the batteries, the battery box, and finish stripping the bottom around the drive-line. Note that this "detail" is apparently just an example sketch ("Typical strut installation, E27 thru E36"), but it seems to show a radically different shaft angle.

[Veronica Manganese]

Your A4

Hi Toddster
Loved the picture of your A4, especially since I have one just like it in PIECES in my garage.

Questions: who made the fresh water add on?
How did you mount the heat exchanger?
Can you point me to some info on replacing the raw water cooled late model A4 in my Ericson 27 with the fresh water cooled version? Like, modifications to the existing raw water intake/exhaust?

And, what works well for getting the old engine out and the new one on board? Can I use the boom and a block and tackle?

I love the Ericson 27 because of the great engine access, and I'm thrilled to find the forum. Have had the sailboat awhile now, but am just now finding all of you.

Thanks in advance
Veronica

[hanleyclifford]

I think we may be getting a little wrapped around the er, driveshaft here. In your situation I would check to see that your shaft log will pass a new 1" shaft. If it will I would simply get one made up for the new prop, put a new cutless bearing in your cobblestrut, align as best you can, and go sailing. Next winter on the hard have another look at it.