“The boat is the infection!!!”

[Bryan Janeway]

Good day all and thank you for reading.

This is a post to describe in reasonable detail my trial and tribulations with the Atomic 4 on my Northern 29 sloop this past season.

The basic issue was unexplained shutdowns happening since purchase in late 2016. At first the engine would shut down rarely but could be restarted immediately and no issues would be obvious. Temps and oil pressure would be fine and rpm would be reasonable. The few shutdowns that happened in 2017 seemed to happen after approximately 2 hours of motoring. The engine could be restarted and the trips could be completed without further issue. So I tended to shrug my shoulders and just blame it on a 1978 engine.

Early in 2018 the shutdown issue became more frequent and sometimes would not restart for 20 or more minutes and the shutdowns would reoccur. My faith in the engine was strained preventing my usual multiple day sailing excursions and led to deeper investigation. The basics were completed first... checked compression, and exhaust back pressure. Coil, and complete ignition system replacement including points, condenser, distributor, rotor, plugs, and plug leads. This had no immediate effect on the shutdown condition. After checking voltages within the system several voltage drops were found prompting a rebuild of the DC system and running several new leads and cleaning all the contacts. This seemed to help for a time but the shutdowns began again before too long.

At this point my focus turned in on the fuel system. The fuel was drained, lines and filters changed, carb rebuilt by local guy (really pretty now). While carb was rebuilt I removed the manifold for inspection and checked and reset valve clearances which were a little tight but not dramatically so. The carb was reinstalled and the change was dramatic. The rebuilder said the carb was dirty and an idle jet was clogged. It ran great both in gear and in neutral. The smooth idle and transition in gear made me feel like my problems were solved. I ran it at the dock for nearly an hour with a big smile.

I continued to check and recheck temps and pressures and was becoming confident that the carb was always the issue. As I prepped the boat for a sail the engine purred comfortably along down below sounding like a million bucks. As I untied the spring line the engine failed......... thoughts of how big a hole saw I would need to quickly drill through the hull and sink the boat in the marina right there and then was forefront in my mind!!

Back to the drawing board.

At this point I feel it is important for everyone reading to realize that this project and its eventual solution was not a solo undertaking. By this point I had the help of friends and family that included an electrical engineer, two auto mechanics, a mutitude of sailors with decades of atomic 4 experience, and several marine mechanics. All of which basically donated their time and experience for not much more than beer and hoagies.

One marine mechanic who listed up many solutions offered this last advice based on the extensive parts cannon fired at the engine already and explained that there was nothing wrong with it. “The boat is the infection!!!! Remove the boat and your problem will be solved!”

Going back to the boat I inventoried all the things I did and things that had been done to the boat over the years which included a very expensive marine alternator and accompanying voltage regulators and chargers to allow both the house and start batteries to be charged. I began by removing the alternator completely from the engine as well as all associated wiring.

Guess what??

The engine started and ran like a champ for hours. No issues.
A 94 amp merc alternator was put in the old alternators place and again no issues.......... until it again failed. At this point I jumped the ignition system as well as the fuel pump thinking the gremlin was still somewhere in that mix. The engine was started and ran for a time until it again failed. Only this time there was a very noticeable change. Silence!!!!! Not just the engine but also the fuel pump..... for about five seconds after shutdown, then the tell tale clicking resumed..... how could a fuel pump connected almost directly through the start battery just plain “stop”?? And then restart?? I traced back the electrical and then disconnected the house battery and all chargers. No issues. Connected to just the house battery, no issues. Reconnect the charger between banks and again failure after failure. I removed the charger that managed the charge between the two battery banks and voila..... no more issues.

Finally!

I was able to run the engine for hours on end the last two weeks without issue. The engine sounds great and while I think it was long overdue for a tune up and full systems check I did waste a lot of the summer believing that the engine was the problem and focused too much on the symptoms (engine failure) of the problem and not on the actual problem. This was primarily based on the fact that to replace the alternator system that was on board would currently cost over 2000 Canadian looneys. I often would tell people how much a previous owner had invested in the boat and was rather proud of how it all worked.... except for the fact that it didn’t.

The local alternator guy has given me his opinion on the system I had but it is not my intention to bad mouth any products here. He provided me with an alternator that can be easily repaired or replaced which while needing some attention to engine and battery bank switch position while recharging the house battery is about as simple as simple can be.

I don’t know how old my alternator and DC charging system was or exactly how the charger between the house and start battery was able to cause the engine shutdowns to occur. Obviously a momentary voltage drop as it cycled from bulk to float charge or something along those lines. I do however know that most of the short 2018 sailing season was lost because I had overwhelming confidence in all my electrical gizmos and gadgets and very little confidence in a little 40 year engine that could.

In conclusion, if I could pass along this small piece of advice when dealing with your atomic 4 issues remember “the boat is the infection”!! Try not to focus as much on the engine as what is connected to the engine. As I move forward I will always try to remember to remove the boat from the equation.

As my boat was just rudely yanked from the waters of Lake Ontario yesterday and has been locked into a cage of frozen north the long wait until spring is here. I hope everyone enjoyed the read and has a great winter season, happy snowmobiling all🎄.

Also i would be most welcome to hearing any suggestions or issues I may have missed or overlooked.

Best regards,

Bryan

[ndutton]

I think you had multiple issues Bryan. Certainly your "charger" was a problem (do you mean a charge combiner/battery isolator?) but also you had a clogged carburetor. Cleaning it made a significant improvement so it contributed to your problems.

Have you determined where the carburetor debris came from? It doesn't magically appear inside a carburetor, it came from somewhere, most often the tank. Until the source is found and thoroughly resolved you're at risk of more shut downs in the future.

Be sure you don't rotate your battery switch through "OFF" with the engine running. Doing so can destroy the alternator's diode bridge at the speed of light. Also, it sounds like you do not have an oil pressure safety switch ahead of the electric fuel pump. It is a critical safety feature required by the USCG for gasoline inboards.

By the way, without you disclosing what he said, I bet your alternator guy and I have the same opinion of your original system.

[Bryan Janeway]

Thank you for the response,

Your first comment is halarious because that is what the first marine mechanic said to me. You are correct I am sure there were multiple issues.

In regards to the fuel, yes there was some “fluff” in the tank which has since been purged and filters replaced. I have learned about my moeller fuel tank and now know how to inspect for impurities. Where it came from in the first place is still in question but I have some thoughts. So I am careful about where I fill up now.

The oil pressure switch was one of the components in the parts cannon and it is indeed connected as per the uscg and Moyer marine recommendations. When I jumped it it was for maintenance and troubleshooting purposes only.

My blue sea battery switch set prevents me from switching “through” off so that should not be a problem. One question however is does it hurt the alternator to switch the engine off using the battery switch itself and not the ignition switch??? Sometimes that is more convenient especially when I am monkeying with something.

Again thank you for the response.

B

[tenders]

Pretty sure Neil meant “to OFF.” As in, “don’t go through 2/all/1 to OFF.”

You do that regularly?

Definitely do not do that. Turn the engine off with the ignition switch, and then turn off the battery switch. I shudder to think what in a complex system was cooked with the sudden discontinuities introduced into the system with a running alternator. I am surprised the alternator still works.

[Bryan Janeway]

I have not done it regularly, but I cannot say I have not done it ever. In troubleshooting a few months ago a mechanic shut the engine down using the battery switch. I just assumed that it wasn’t an issue. Thank you for pointing this out and providing me with this info, it is much appreciated.

I have reviewed the blue sea systems manuals and done a few google searches and see that it is a destructive idea. Interesting what bad habits you can develop by just observing and assuming.

Best regards

B

[ndutton]

Interesting what bad habits you can develop by just observing and assuming.

Bryan, I don't throw around 'Thanks' on posts willy nilly but you're hitting all the marks. As for the mechanic who shut the engine down via the battery switch, never let him near your boat again.

[rkohl44]

Originally Posted by Bryan Janeway

In regards to the fuel, yes there was some “fluff” in the tank which has since been purged and filters replaced. I have learned about my moeller fuel tank and now know how to inspect for impurities. Where it came from in the first place is still in question but I have some thoughts. So I am careful about where I fill up now.

Make sure you check your deck fill o-rings. My crusty, corroded ones were the source of water in my gas tank.

[Bryan Janeway]

The fuel filler and o rings are new and inspected. I will keep tabs on fuel from now on.

Joe. Thank you for asking. I am still not sure why the engine would fail with the charger attached. This was connected correctly and confirmed correct by multiple parties. When connected properly it would cause a momentary voltage drop, I suspect at the start battery. This was causing a shutdown. When the unit is removed there is no problem. Now most of the mechanics that were apart of this are like you and are having a hard time understanding why the voltage is dropping. We even had multimeters attached at several points trying to figure it out. But regardless of why the event happens it can be consistently and predictably reproduced by installing the charger as per the instructions. Once removed the shutdowns cease. If you can think of additional things to look at I would be more than willing to review.

That being said in the spring I will be mindful of the fact that something else may be amiss and report back with results ��

Best regards

Bryan

Ps and the alarm system is on my Christmas list ��

[GregH]

May I ask what charger you are/were using between the banks?