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  #51   IP: 206.125.176.3
Old 11-03-2011, 08:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ajax View Post
I'm going to have a look anyway, but if you're right about the poor access, I hope you're right that not removing them won't cause the block to explode this winter.
Bah! Ajax, you have plenty of access. - you just need to become wise in the ways of the contortionist. - The aft drain is between the distributor and the alternator belt. If as original, I think most were were galvanized , 1/8" x 6" pipe nipples. Mine broke off long ago..some just put a plug back in, or I had to enlarge mine to 1/4" NPT since there was so much corrosion. I have good enough access I could probably skip the nipple and just have a plug in there since the 1/4" nipple is uncomfortably close to the alternator belt.

BTW - The Moyer panoramic motor on the home page is a great way to scan the motor up close from the comfort of your PC to figure out where things are.
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  #52   IP: 24.152.131.155
Old 11-03-2011, 09:27 AM
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The whole nine yards

I'm not a winterizer but if it hasn't been done in a while what a great time to remove the sideplate altogether. By next spring the waterjacket would be thoroughly cleaned, the starter, alternator and associated brackets cleaned up, fresh fasteners and gasket and the block drains cleaned up and functional for the next time.
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  #53   IP: 96.50.198.190
Old 12-22-2011, 12:58 AM
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Lightbulb

My Ericson 29 is moored in Victoria BC Canada - the temperature at ocean level seldom reaches 32 degrees F - I have a dehumidifier that keeps the humidity on board at 35 to 40% and approximately 1 to 2 degrees above the ambient temp. If it gets colder I can activate an 110V heater that keeps the hull at 34 degrees or warmer. What would you recommend regarding winterizing the engine and cooling system. I also take the boat out for a half hour motor once per month. There is also a problem in Canada finding Marvel Miracle Oil. I have spoken with my auto mechanic and he identified challenges using an unleaded fuel that the engine was probably originally designed for so the MMO sounds like the perfect solution??
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  #54   IP: 199.173.226.236
Old 12-22-2011, 09:32 AM
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32 won't freeze salt water, so if you're SURE it never gets colder than that, you might not need to do anything.
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  #55   IP: 66.190.39.246
Old 12-22-2011, 07:58 PM
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Why is it that you cannot buy Marvel Mystery Oil in Canada?
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  #56   IP: 184.145.76.14
Old 02-09-2012, 03:43 PM
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Winter shutdown of Atomic 4

I purchased a C&C with the A4 in it and the previous owner showed me some things which horrified me, so I need opinions here before proceeding.

1) He is using Valvoline 10W30 car oil in the engine. My understanding is the A4 uses a wet clutch. So my thinking is it should have motorcycle oil in it designed for wet clutch systems. I'm thinking 10W40 Mobil 1 motorcycle oil. He had to hold the gearshift level down in reverse or it would pop out.

2) When he shuts down the engine for the last time in the fall he pours oil in the spark arrestor until the engine stalls. This fills the cylinders with oil for the winter he tells me. I assume it also fouls the plugs. I prefer to squirt a bit in the cylinders after removing the plugs. My Marine Surveyor mentioned the spark arrestor is covered in oil and should be cleaned.

3) Plug spark plug wires are taped together in a clump. Why I don't know. I have purchased new wires and plugs anyway.

Thoughts please...
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  #57   IP: 76.7.133.129
Old 02-09-2012, 04:58 PM
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This may help with question one. http://www.moyermarine.com/faq/3.6.html Dan S/V Marian Claire
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  #58   IP: 184.145.76.14
Old 02-09-2012, 10:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marian Claire View Post
This may help with question one. http://www.moyermarine.com/faq/3.6.html Dan S/V Marian Claire
I was more concerned with item (2). Pouring oil in the spark arrester. I intend to use the motorcycle multigrade oil because of the wet clutch.
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Old 02-09-2012, 10:46 PM
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From what I've read around here (I don't winterize and my heart goes out to those that need to) the spark plugs are trashed in the Spring after start-up regardless of what type of oil you're putting in the cylinders. Also, I think tossing motor oil in the intake is a good way to clog up the very small passages in the carburetor. The textbook method is squirting a shot or two of Marvel Mystery Oil into the spark plug holes.

As for the preferred oil in consideration of the wet "clutch" (to apply a motorcycle analogy), straight 30 weight detergent motor oil is recommended by our host and Rotella seems to be popular with many knowledgeable members.
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  #60   IP: 24.196.124.239
Old 02-10-2012, 08:08 AM
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The A4 tranny has a strong detent for forward ; no detent in reverse. Holding reverse is normal. A thread on oils for the A4 on this forum a while back made me a Rotella convert. I have stopped wondering about other oils because my engine is happy.

Fogging the A4 by feeding MMO thru the carb is a long established part of winterization , or pickeling. This applies to winter prep in cold climates (like 43 dg. north) , or warm climates in the case of prolonged inactivity. Yes , the plugs become a mess , but that is why God made spark plug cleaners. I use the gummy plugs for spring start-up , then , once the engine is recommissioned I swap out for new plugs , clean the dirty ones and keep them as spares. (Actually , after the gummy plugs are run through a cleaner they are perfectly good to go.)

I cannot guess why the PO bound the plug wires together. You are correct in flagging that.

All in all , your problems are minor and you should have a happy engine soon. Enjoy your Atomic Four!
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  #61   IP: 155.104.37.18
Old 02-10-2012, 10:11 AM
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I think pouring 10w30 into the carb is bogus. I could see doing it with MMO, which is a much lighter oil.

Even better, would be MMO fogging spray.
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  #62   IP: 148.170.241.1
Old 02-10-2012, 10:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by old-sailer View Post
He had to hold the gearshift level down in reverse or it would pop out.
This is normal for the A4 reversing gear - there is a firm detent in forward, but none in reverse. You have to hold the lever to keep it in reverse or it will just slide back out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by old-sailer View Post
When he shuts down the engine for the last time in the fall he pours oil in the spark arrestor until the engine stalls.
Depending on what oil he's using, that actually should be fine. Fogging oil or Marvel Mystery Oil are fine. I don't think I would do it with crankcase oil, though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by old-sailer View Post
My Marine Surveyor mentioned the spark arrestor is covered in oil and should be cleaned.
Sure.

Keep in mind the Atomic 4 basically is a 1930's/1940's utility engine design, representing state-of-the-art technology of that era. It's a little brute of an engine, being all cast iron and steel. It is not a high-rpm, twitchy, lightweight, aluminum alloy motorcycle engine and is much more robust and simple than a lot of modern engines of similar displacement and power.
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  #63   IP: 199.173.226.236
Old 02-10-2012, 11:23 AM
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http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs...&ci_sku=109292
I wouldn't use normal lube oil for this job.
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  #64   IP: 184.145.76.14
Old 02-10-2012, 06:51 PM
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Yes I could see "fogging" with a thin oil but not pouring 10W30 down the carb. That still bothers me. I see Don recommends removing the plugs and squirting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laker View Post
The A4 tranny has a strong detent for forward ; no detent in reverse. Holding reverse is normal. A thread on oils for the A4 on this forum a while back made me a Rotella convert. I have stopped wondering about other oils because my engine is happy.

Fogging the A4 by feeding MMO thru the carb is a long established part of winterization , or pickeling. This applies to winter prep in cold climates (like 43 dg. north) , or warm climates in the case of prolonged inactivity. Yes , the plugs become a mess , but that is why God made spark plug cleaners. I use the gummy plugs for spring start-up , then , once the engine is recommissioned I swap out for new plugs , clean the dirty ones and keep them as spares. (Actually , after the gummy plugs are run through a cleaner they are perfectly good to go.)

I cannot guess why the PO bound the plug wires together. You are correct in flagging that.

All in all , your problems are minor and you should have a happy engine soon. Enjoy your Atomic Four!
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  #65   IP: 184.145.76.14
Old 02-10-2012, 06:59 PM
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Thanks guys...

Thanks for the responses. You've pretty much confirmed my thoughts.

I was happy to learn holding reverse is normal.

No more crankcase oil down the carb. I'll squirt in the spark plug holes.

I'm replacing the wires. plugs, and adding Moyer's dip stick extension.

I'm going to try the Mobil 1 motorcycle oil... I have great faith in Mobil 1.

I'm also going to drop a bit of Seafoam in the gas.

Hopefully I can make it happy.

I have already added the 3 blade prop to get more poop out of her as suggested by others here.
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  #66   IP: 184.145.76.14
Old 02-10-2012, 07:06 PM
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Many of these items that you folks see at West Marine in the US are illegal in Canada because of their pollution value, so it's really hard to get an equivalent product at times. We have a West Marine here in Kingston and the manager explained to me that many of these products in the catalog are not available here because of this. They are attempting to acquire replacement products that meet Canadian Clean Air requirements but it's a tough road. We are no longer allowed to use insecticides for Pete's sake. Only soap. I have to sneak over the New York and smuggle the stuff home to kill the ants that love my home each summer. If it keeps up I'll move into the boat for the summer. At least there's no ants.


Quote:
Originally Posted by joe_db View Post
http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs...&ci_sku=109292
I wouldn't use normal lube oil for this job.
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  #67   IP: 74.162.82.28
Old 02-11-2012, 06:38 AM
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You will be doing something of an experiment using Mobil 1 motorcycle oil. At least for your first season stick with what has been proven to work by others (I have used 30w Penzoil across 2 motors for a total running time of about 8,500 hours).
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Old 02-11-2012, 08:21 PM
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True, but my concern is the wet clutch. 30 weight oil from the 70's and 80's is substantially different from the modern oils. Oils now have additives not available back then. While possibly good for the engine parts they are not good for the clutch. I have seen wet clutches destroyed by modern oils. Thus my experiment as you call it.

Actually Robert Hess, our Canadian equivalent of Don Moyer recommends 10W40 oil for use up here because of the operating temperature in which the A4 is expected to run in our colder water.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jhwelch View Post
You will be doing something of an experiment using Mobil 1 motorcycle oil. At least for your first season stick with what has been proven to work by others (I have used 30w Penzoil across 2 motors for a total running time of about 8,500 hours).

Last edited by old-sailer; 02-11-2012 at 08:40 PM. Reason: Spelling, always spelling
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Old 02-12-2012, 08:03 AM
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Rotella. If that fails , use Rotella.
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Old 02-18-2012, 02:42 PM
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Pouring oil is the old way of winterizing, if you look at an original A-4 manual this is the way to winterize it, remove spark arrester, pour engine oil while engine is running until it stops, then close intake and exhaust with waxed paper to prevent moisture to go into engine..

I used to drain the block with the 3 drain plugs only but since the threads ar stripped I now put anti-freeze after having removed the thermostat ( late model ).
Once anti-freeze starts exiting the exhaust I rush into the cabin and squirt fogging oil until it dies ( you must manually increase speed in order to fog it properly before it dies ).
I then put a little in the cylinders and replace spark plugs. In spring I just need to clean the plugs and it starts within a few seconds.
Of course I also winterize the fuel system and remove the water pump impeller in fall.
BTW, I have been using Castrol motorcycle oil for the past 12 years and it does a good job ( no slippery agent , good rust protection ).
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Old 02-24-2012, 06:55 PM
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We're of like minds... I like the motorcycle oil also.



Quote:
Originally Posted by lapls View Post
Pouring oil is the old way of winterizing, if you look at an original A-4 manual this is the way to winterize it, remove spark arrester, pour engine oil while engine is running until it stops, then close intake and exhaust with waxed paper to prevent moisture to go into engine..

I used to drain the block with the 3 drain plugs only but since the threads ar stripped I now put anti-freeze after having removed the thermostat ( late model ).
Once anti-freeze starts exiting the exhaust I rush into the cabin and squirt fogging oil until it dies ( you must manually increase speed in order to fog it properly before it dies ).
I then put a little in the cylinders and replace spark plugs. In spring I just need to clean the plugs and it starts within a few seconds.
Of course I also winterize the fuel system and remove the water pump impeller in fall.
BTW, I have been using Castrol motorcycle oil for the past 12 years and it does a good job ( no slippery agent , good rust protection ).

Last edited by old-sailer; 02-26-2012 at 01:47 PM.
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Old 09-03-2012, 06:38 AM
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Is there any problem with simply draining the block instead of filling with anti-freeze? Secondly, is there a need to drain water out of the entire exhaust?
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  #73   IP: 24.224.206.117
Old 09-03-2012, 07:36 AM
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I think you are better off to use auto antifreeze mixed 50/50...then you won't have to worry about exhaust or engine....it will be fine. Those of us that do that don't end up with frost related repairs.
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Old 09-03-2012, 08:00 AM
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As Mo indicates, it seems to me the main concern would be whether you actually got all the water out.
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Old 09-03-2012, 08:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prstack7 View Post
Is there any problem with simply draining the block instead of filling with anti-freeze? Secondly, is there a need to drain water out of the entire exhaust?

This has to be a contender for most trodden topic.

Pickling with anti-freeze is , in my opinion , easier than wrestling with the drain plugs each year. The plugs eventually get mangled , many of us have poor access to them , and I hate that "I wonder if I got all the water out" feeling. Plus , the water jackets benefit from the green stuff's rust protection ; empty jackets do not.

I see no downside to anti-freeze pickling , except for the odd tree hugger who thinks that life as we know it will cease if you blurp a couple of ounces of green stuff out the exhaust and onto the boatyard pavement.

(Note : Do not allow a friend or your dog to wrap their lips around the exhaust discharge when you do you first spring start-up. After that it is OK.)
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