There was a reference to "lubing the advance" - how & where

[sastanley]

Yes, that is what my step-father recommended. He said we should find a couple roll pins holding all the parts togther. I recall one down on bottom of the shaft holding the gear on, but am not sure exactly how the rest of it separates, but that is what the experts like him are for...gotta surround yourself with smart people!

I'll be sure to take some pics as I've never seen the distributor disassembled farther than the removing the weights.

And, I get another chance to use my punch set!

[thatch]

One rolled pin through the gear is what holds things together. There are washers/spacers between the gear and housing, just make sure that they go back in the same order.
Tom

[JOHN COOKSON]

But now, I think my Delco dizzy shaft is getting stuck "advanced". The engine starts running like crap after about 30-40 minutes and I pulled the cap & plate to find a weight stuck out extended, and I can't rotate the rotor the 17° clockwise being discussed here..like it is already in that position. I thought I'd freed it up by adding a little oil under the felt thingie, but a subsequent test run the next day revealed the same problem 30 minutes later.

If you figure out why the engine "started running like crap after 30-45 minutes" also "the same problem 30 minutes later" let us know.
As I recall you reported problems with the advance a few months ago.
Agree that it is time to remove the dizzy and get to the root of the problem. If you could get some pictures of the problem once you get it apart it would be helpful for a distributor green horn like me.

TRUE GRIT

[sastanley]

Sure thing John...as mentioned, I thought you really only need to lube the weights (which I did over the winter with new springs), but now I am learning the two shafts can also bind up on each other, which I think is what is happening here. I'll be sure to snap some fotos!

[Administrator]

Bill, I know..but if you area alluding to the old thing we've been 'round and 'round about, I do not think it is the coil, & the springs were MMI issue earlier this spring.

I was alluding to something having to do with changing the springs.

Bill

[sastanley]

Oh, OK, Bill..well then I was confused. I had full confidence in the springs.

Anyway, so my step-father came over and we futzed with the dizzy. He is pretty confident the issue was some foreign matter in between the two shafts binding it up. We found some scoring on the outer shaft that we cleaned up with some 600 grit wrapped around a pencil. We also used the 600 grit to polish the inner shaft, which showed rust and brown contamination.
Tom, we ended up not needing to remove the gear and inner shaft from the housing..all the problems appeared to be where the two shafts hang out together inside the cam lobes.

All re-assembled, and as soon as I reinstall the dizzy, it will be ready for a test drive on Wednesday evening.

Thanks to my step-father, Pete, for being the hand model

[thatch]

Oops

After looking at Shawn's clean-up of his distributor, I had concerns about how the Delco unit was arranged. In my Universal parts book dated 8/79, the assembly diagram shows the drive shaft and top spring mount plate as being one piece, just like other V8 types of Delco units, thus reguiring removal of the bottom gear for cleaning and lubing. Apparantly, at some point the design changed to what Shawn has. I also took apart my spare distributor and found it to be just like Shawn's. I guess my next question would be to Don, asking if he knows about when there was a design change, if there was one.
Tom

[Don Moyer]

Oops

Tom, relying on a Delco distributor in my lower desk drawer, the shaft does connect to a plate on top onto which the flyweight assembly attaches, so you would have to remove the drive gear to remove the shaft. I don't know of any other variations of this particular distributor.

Many years ago, in hoping to find some other application for our distributor, I called Delco customer service with our Delco part number (1110-546-8-B16) and asked what applications used this particular distributor (not telling her I was working on an Atomic 4). The nice lady on the other end of the line came back in a few minutes saying she was confused because there was only one line in her part numbering document for that part number and it was for a Universal Atomic 4. She suspected a misprint of some kind. I thanked her and told her that her information was unfortunately correct.

One more point for Shawn in passing; since you're removing the entire flyweight assembly, notice that it's possible to get the upper shaft (with the two arms on the bottom which attach to the springs) installed backwards. This will have the advance mechanism retarding the ignition on increasing RPM instead of advancing it. Just be sure to check that the rotor spring loads in a clockwise direction before you complete the assembly. If not, simply turn the upper shaft 180 degrees so that the indexing pins in the bottom of the arm go into the holes in the plate again but rotated 180 degrees. Don

[sastanley]

Don thanks for the explanation. My stepfather worked for VW for 50+ years before retiring, which is why I called him in for reinforcements after my failed attempt to fix this issue in situ this weekend. Stuff like this is right up his alley!

I mentioned to him that some part of the assembly related to the advance weights could be put in backwards, but I wasn't quite sure which part, and it always seemed to be correct, but I wasn't 100% sure. After he examined it for about 30 seconds, he suddenly smiled and spun the shaft and showed me exactly what you explained..if you put the upper shaft in wrong, the indexing pin on the bottom side is in the wrong hole and doesn't work correctly.

Thanks again for the heads up.

[thatch]

Don and Shawn, Thanks for helping to sort out the confusion I had over these distributors. Also, I wonder how many people have reversed the top plate and gone nuts trying to figure out what they've done. I'll be careful putting mine back together.
Tom

[Don Moyer]

Flyweights

Shawn, it must be a real luxury to have a step dad with such good mechanical skills to look over your shoulder. Please give him our best regards, I'm a step dad myself. Don

[sastanley]

Don, thanks, it is...he helped me rebuild my first 1237cc Honda Civic motor (not much larger than an A4!) when I was a teenager in the 80's..probably what got me hooked on wrenchin'.

Tom, Now that I know it, I don't think I'll forget. The key is to remember Don's tips...spinning the distributor clockwise and having the springs forcefully pulling back against you, assures your indexing pin is in the correct hole in the plate underneath. If you have not fully re-assembled the distributor you can also see the weights in action too..it really is a simple but ingenious design.

[roadnsky]

By chance did you take any pictures for the visually challenged amongst us?

[sastanley]

To follow up, after polishing the inner and outer shafts of the distributor with 600 grit paper and lubing with MMO, the engine ran great for two hours this evening in varying conditions and RPMs. Sorry I didn't take pics of the corrosion inside the dizzy, but the point is when you take your Delco apart to do the weights, clean and lube the shafts too. I think I had a piece of trash in between the shafts scoring/binding things up and causing problems. Blasting it with carb cleaner and lubing with MMO should take care of that.

edit - Jerry, what pics are you looking for..disassembled Delco dizzy? The weight/spring action? Talk to me brother, and I'll work on it when I am not busy cruising or something.

[rkohl44]

Remove the distributor cap, remove the rotor, remove the magnetic EI collar, remove the round flat plate that holds the EI module. You'll find the centrifugal advance weights underneath the flat plate with small springs on them. Make sure they move freely by hand and lubricate.

I installed my EI 3 years ago and for the life of me, I can't remember how the magnetic EI collar goes on. I think it just pushes down, but I didn't want to force it pulling up to get it off. Is there a trick to pulling it off, or just pull harder?