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View Poll Results: Water batching out of your exhaust while at your favorite cruising power setting?
Yes, and my spark plugs are sooty. 5 23.81%
Yes, and my spark plugs are a light grey in color. 9 42.86%
No, and my plugs are sooty. 1 4.76%
No, and my spark plugs are a light grey in color. 6 28.57%
Voters: 21. You may not vote on this poll

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  #26   IP: 24.224.206.117
Old 09-06-2011, 11:16 PM
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Shawn,
Looks about the same to me. I heard your temp was 150 and that was good too ...so she's moving lots of water. I need to put a tach in mine. I have another set of gauges in the garage but no desire to mess with it. It won't be long now and the gig will be up and I'll be on the hard. I only have 799 nm so far this year...it rained hard on me today, lost my sense of humor, and turned around before she hit 800. Terrible spring and just lost 13 perfect sailing days due to steering failure...all good now....had a great labor day weekend. If you are on facebook there are a load of pics..
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  #27   IP: 68.126.199.192
Old 09-07-2011, 02:19 AM
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My system batched from day one. Thought it was normal. Does it hurt anything?
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  #28   IP: 38.118.55.125
Old 09-07-2011, 07:45 AM
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Shawn, do you recall what the condition of your plugs were prior to adjusting your water flow (sooty/not sooty), and will you be willing to operate for a while at the new more even flow long enough to see if the plug condition improves (assuming they were a bit sooty to start with)?
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  #29   IP: 206.125.176.3
Old 09-07-2011, 09:19 AM
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Question

Prior to water flow adjustment, I've always had what I'd call, slightly sooty plugs. They also vary across the cylinders, #1 being the most "ashy" and normal looking (similar to Maurice's in post #21), and sometimes #4 being a bit oily, the latter I believe due to a frequently sticking valve, which since has been remedied. On occasion, I rotate the plugs around as well.

I need a little clarification...when we say sooty, do we mean a grey ash color, or do we mean sooty type deposits on the plugs/electrode? I picked the 2nd option in the poll.. - Bill, maybe a couple of pictures of what you and Don consider sooty & light grey would help??

When I am not having coil problems, the engine is now running better than ever. This video was taken on Saturday, Sept 3, on the way in from a great day of sailing. The condition of the plugs should still be in the running condition they were in at the time of the video. I can pull them and take some pictures of their present condition to compare to my report above. I don't think I've pulled the plugs at all this year, except when I'd yank one to check for spark during coil failure.

As for the adjustments in flow from a "standard cooling configuration"....I've had the bypass valve installed almost since I've owned the boat...so I really have limited experience with the plug condition/water flow prior to the bypass. Additionally, this summer, I pulled the side plate and enlarged the tee fitting to 1/2" NPT (the "Dutton modification"), and also added cast fittings where I could and reversed my manifold flow, (the "Thatcher modification"), I think a combination of adding the 1/2" NPT to the sideplate and the cast fittings seems to allow an additional volume of water flow and a slightly lower overall operating temperature on the gauge. (The ultimate plan is to introduce my motor to FWC, but I am being a bit lazy about installation..) - Prior to these modifications, I was running 165-170 pretty consistently, and now it seems to swing a little more again, as low as 150 to maybe as high as 180 if I am watching the gauges closely enough. I have not moved the bypass valve from its 'somewhere in the middle' setting.

As you can see, I am a tinkerer & like to experiment, so I might throw off the results a little bit...but I'll be happy to test some things and report what I can! - I'll review some of my earlier posts here on the forum and see if I have any pictures from way back with plug condition prior to all this tinkering.

Mo, My wife is on the FB, so I'll have her check out your pics. The motor is definitely moving more water this summer, I think mainly due to the side plate fitting enlargement. I have 5/8" hose everywhere except a short run of 1/2" hose from the new sideplate tee fitting to the thermostat housing.
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"Twice Around" - '77 Catalina 30, #511 with original A-4 & MMI manifold.
She is always happy with a clean bottom!

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Last edited by sastanley; 09-07-2011 at 09:34 AM. Reason: blah blah blah..I like to ramble!
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  #30   IP: 38.118.55.125
Old 09-07-2011, 10:32 AM
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Shawn, evaluating plug condition is somewhat subjective, but by "sooty" I've always been referring to black/dry sootiness (sometimes referred to as "velvety". This condition is not all that unusual and can be caused by a slightly rich fuel mixture, very infrequent running, quite low compression, and even a slightly elevated exhaust back pressure. In more exaggerated conditions, the black soot can have a damp/wet look caused by burning a bit of oil, or even gas if a particular cylinder is beginning to misfire which will of course cause the engine to miss and loose power.

In our experience, the light grey surface on the plugs in post #21 (particularly the two on the right) are great examples of a well running normal engine on all counts. I can't be 100% certain, but it appears to me that the plugs in post #21 may have a slightly higher heat range rating then Champion RJ12C plugs judging from the rather long porcelain post and center electrode. If this observation is correct, the higher heat range would account in part for the cleaner burning.

I have one question for you, Shawn, which relates to your reference to reducing the water flow from your exhaust by controlling the valve in your bypass loop. In a normal configuration, the bypass valve only controls the amount of water that's passing through the block and head, and unless there is a significant restriction within the block or head, the flow out the back of the boat should be approximately the same. So the question is, are you sure the flow out of the back of your boat is decreasing as you close the bypass valve?
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  #31   IP: 206.125.176.3
Old 09-07-2011, 10:50 AM
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Don,

I do not think the flow has decreased using the bypass valve. This, of course, is a subjective assessment. I haven't actually tested the flow with a timer or bucket, etc.., as compared to the bypass being completely open.

FYI - I have run hotter plugs in my engine in the past, but I am currently running the Champion RJ12C's, which were new last summer...they might have 25 hours on them.. & they seem to perform admirably. I'll try to get some pictures soon, as well as a more definitive assessment on the flow characteristics with the bypass open & closed.
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"Twice Around" - '77 Catalina 30, #511 with original A-4 & MMI manifold.
She is always happy with a clean bottom!

http://www.moyermarine.com/forums/signaturepics/sigpic3231_6.gif

Last edited by sastanley; 09-07-2011 at 10:41 PM.
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  #32   IP: 24.224.206.117
Old 09-07-2011, 03:45 PM
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Hi Guys,
I was told the NGK XR4 plugs were the cross match for the Champion hot running plugs. Don I got those from Nova Automotive in Dartmouth NS when AC Delco plugs (3 weeks old) were just terrible. That would be worth checking on though. The engine is not burning oil so that helps.

That said, Shawn described my plugs - slight sooty plugs prior to me adjusting mixture. I did spend considerable time tweaking the mixture screw on the carb. I have it set up now where the engine starts immediately with choke and slowly ease it back in...about 30 seconds after start the choke cable is all the way back in. (if the engine is warm no choke...that doesn't change) I used my nose (smell) to adjust the richness (believe it or not). I eased the screw out until I didn't have the pronounced exhaust smell...when I got there then had to make sure I had power and started fine cold...a couple of days trial and error and I think it is pretty close to where it should be. Seems to work OK. Just tinkered with it and noticed fuel consumption better also...I was running way too rich last year.
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1976 C&C 30 MKI

The pessimist complains about the wind.
The optimist expects it to change.
The realist adjusts the sails.
...Sir William Arthur Ward.
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  #33   IP: 206.125.176.3
Old 09-07-2011, 05:04 PM
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Question

Mo..do you have the adjustable main jet? I have a fixed main jet.

I am wondering where this poll is going? I wonder if it is to gather some data related to the bypass valve being set such that it allows the engine to run too cold and thus creating sooty plugs?
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"Twice Around" - '77 Catalina 30, #511 with original A-4 & MMI manifold.
She is always happy with a clean bottom!

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  #34   IP: 24.224.206.117
Old 09-07-2011, 05:59 PM
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Smile We shall see.

Hi Shawn,

I don't have an adjustable main jet...same as you. I just played with it until I got it pretty good.

I think perhaps they want to see generally how people's engines are working and what they are doing to keep them there .... or a combination there-of.

Don mentioned my plugs might be a slightly hotter running. They are supposed to be for this engine. There is also a serious danger associated with using plugs that are too hot...they can literally burn a hole in the top of the piston.

My cooling is not exactly by the book. I want to be able to lay my finger tips to the block and the head and hold them...that's just me. The only parts on the engine that are too hot to handle when running are:
- the exhaust manifold
-and a small area at the front portion of the block around where the blow-by tube comes out to the carb...pretty warm there too.
Otherwise not bad at all.

The great thing about this forum is people get enough good information to maintain the engine. They have the additional opportunity to gain an understanding of:
- it's workings
- weak areas
- troubleshooting skills,
- obtaining parts and spares
- and fixing it
...........not bad at all.

Each boat is different. Exhaust configurations on various boats; where to place additional filters...the list goes on....the knowledge is priceless to owners. Where else would they get that kind of detail from guys who own the same boat and the same engine.

So, I'll throw in my little bit and we'll see where it goes.
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"Odyssey"
1976 C&C 30 MKI

The pessimist complains about the wind.
The optimist expects it to change.
The realist adjusts the sails.
...Sir William Arthur Ward.
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  #35   IP: 138.88.71.68
Old 09-07-2011, 10:35 PM
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Lightbulb

Mo, I agree...100%. It is kind of flattering when a legend like Don Moyer asks you to do something to your motor & provide feedback...even if you don't exactly know what the master is after...just yet..
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"Twice Around" - '77 Catalina 30, #511 with original A-4 & MMI manifold.
She is always happy with a clean bottom!

http://www.moyermarine.com/forums/signaturepics/sigpic3231_6.gif
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  #36   IP: 24.224.206.117
Old 09-08-2011, 12:02 PM
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Something to be carefull about also.

Quote from post 30)
I have one question for you, Shawn, which relates to your reference to reducing the water flow from your exhaust by controlling the valve in your bypass loop. In a normal configuration, the bypass valve only controls the amount of water that's passing through the block and head, and unless there is a significant restriction within the block or head, the flow out the back of the boat should be approximately the same. So the question is, are you sure the flow out of the back of your boat is decreasing as you close the bypass valve?[/QUOTE]

In response to Don's above remark I can't tell a difference on mine judging by sound or looking. Attached is a picture of the valve. I have to be very careful not to forget to check the position of my valve lever after leaning in over to check the oil. Changed a condenser recently and started the boat from the cockpit to see how it ran. Heard my usual batching and had my glance over the stern...all normal.

Feeling good about correcting my ignition malfunction I went into the cabin to put everything away. I noticed my lever had pushed upward (likely by my chest) into the fully closed position. I reset it to where you see it but I didn't notice any difference in exhaust water output. So I said to myself .. "Self" ( I knew it was me because I recognized the voice!) you better not make that mistake again. I think I may remove the handle in position and save myself some trouble...that could have caused down-time on my sailing.

Hence the reason they invented a Thermostat to regulate coolant water to the head automatically. Although I don't use a T-stat I am not "anti" T-stat. I like to know that I have water to the head.
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"Odyssey"
1976 C&C 30 MKI

The pessimist complains about the wind.
The optimist expects it to change.
The realist adjusts the sails.
...Sir William Arthur Ward.

Last edited by Mo; 09-08-2011 at 12:19 PM. Reason: last Para added
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  #37   IP: 24.224.206.117
Old 09-08-2011, 09:06 PM
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Thumbs up Mr. Moyer...Oh Great One.

Shawn,

Speaking of Don. When I bought the boat I looked at the engine and wasn't too impressed with what I saw. Fooled with it a day or two and it wouldn't stay running. I was a phone call from ordering a Beta Marine 30 hp diesel. Then I found this site, Don helped me out and the rest is history...she been a good engine.

Mr. Moyer...Oh Great One. (I'm bowing gratefully)
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"Odyssey"
1976 C&C 30 MKI

The pessimist complains about the wind.
The optimist expects it to change.
The realist adjusts the sails.
...Sir William Arthur Ward.
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  #38   IP: 24.234.146.50
Old 09-08-2011, 11:07 PM
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Nice steady flow both at idle and at cruise (1800rpm)
Pretty short run though compared to everyone else.
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