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  #26   IP: 68.55.65.114
Old 05-12-2009, 09:41 PM
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A4 fuel issues

You may wish to consider a 'priming' bulb in your fuel line to help make sure there is adequate fuel flow before startup. I put one in and it REALLY made it easier to know that I was getting fuel to the carb when I first tried to start the engine. The Racor may indeed be bad, however, it helps to know that fuel is flowing.

David
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  #27   IP: 71.243.2.22
Old 05-12-2009, 10:07 PM
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Petcock? I'm not being a wiseguy. When our A4 suddenly quit I realized I had failed to open the fuel line. My friend's diesel frequently fails to start due to fuel not getting past a clogged Racor.

Mark
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  #28   IP: 64.12.117.68
Old 05-13-2009, 07:56 AM
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The "priming" bulb is an interesting idea. The petcock is open. I plan on changing the Racor on my next starting attempt. I use "Sta-Bil" in the full fuel tank for winter storage but I noticed that Moyer had mentioned "growth blockage" occuring if water is anywhere in the system. Is the new fuel blend a possible cause? There seems to be a high number of "starting problem" forum threads. I have been sailing this same boat for 39 years and the old A4 has been, with routine maintenance, super reliable.

Again, I installed a new Moyer carb only three years ago so I don't suspect the carb.
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  #29   IP: 69.176.196.198
Old 05-13-2009, 08:34 AM
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Gary, do change the Racor. The ethanol gas acts as a much better solvent than regular gas and delaminates ages of built up shelac like coatings in old fuel tanks, and releases little bits of rust and scale into the tank. A few years ago after a series of clogged filters and blown electric fuel pump fuses we had to pull our tank (a beautiful monel tank) and completely flush it. We got pints of crud out. Also check to see if you have an inline filter somewhere.
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  #30   IP: 206.125.176.3
Old 05-13-2009, 08:52 AM
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Gary, I installed a priming bulb in my system this winter too. It is just in front of the Racor (also new). I am not sure how long it would take the little mechanical pump to pull fuel thru the Racor if I didn't have the priming bulb. It made my start-up in the travel lift slip MUCH easier, despite having to replace the fuel tank 3 days prior to launch..a dozen squeezes and the Racor was full and the A-4 fired right up!

Does your Racor have a drain in the bottom of the bowl?
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  #31   IP: 205.188.117.75
Old 05-13-2009, 01:39 PM
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Thanks for the input. My Racor filter does not have a drain... I do intend to replace it ASAP.

By the way for those interested, I have an ORIGINAL Universal Atomic Four Parts book. This book has exploded drawings for all the A4 components with part numbers. If it doesn't get too crazy, I can scan individual pages and save in my document file to Email, or at least provide part I.D. info. I'm sure however, Moyer has everything one would ever need.
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  #32   IP: 207.236.189.83
Old 05-13-2009, 04:39 PM
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Closed valve on the gaz tank??
For a filter to be clogged to tthe point of not letting any fuel pass.....it would be a very old filter.
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  #33   IP: 142.68.105.118
Old 05-13-2009, 07:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gary gerber View Post
By the way for those interested, I have an ORIGINAL Universal Atomic Four Parts book. This book has exploded drawings for all the A4 components with part numbers. If it doesn't get too crazy, I can scan individual pages and save in my document file to Email, or at least provide part I.D. info. I'm sure however, Moyer has everything one would ever need.
Check out the documents posted here, including what I think might be that manual in digital form:
http://knowledgebase.engines1.com/de...30&Lang=1&SID=
or go to http://www.westerbeke.com, click on "Search by Model" and scroll the dropdown list to Universal Atomic 4. Original operator's manual and parts list.
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  #34   IP: 205.188.117.75
Old 05-14-2009, 11:17 AM
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Thanks, RIGSPELT that was an excellent lead. I have checked out the site.
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  #35   IP: 67.176.139.142
Old 05-17-2009, 10:49 PM
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Progress!

Okay, so I didn't get this issue settled before the boat went in the water, but oh well. Life happens when you're making other plans! The boat went in the water 5/15, and I got a tow to a slip (just a temporary home). In the slip, I reconvened my troubleshooting, as follows...

With the distributor cap and rotor off, I set about troubleshooting the simplest thing: getting a spark. Why could I not get a spark anymore? A few days ago, I did briefly witness a spark after installing the Ignitor electronic ignition, but I managed to fry the Ignitor.

I removed the damaged Ignitor, and re-installed the old breaker plate and re-timed the engine. I then hooked up my jumper wire directly from the main battery terminal on the starter silenoid to the positive (+) terminal of a brand-new coil (just to be on the safe side, I put on a new coil). When I turned on the power, I used my multimeter and verified that power was indeed going where it needed to go. I then used a pencil to open and close the points to see if I got a spark.

Nothing.

I then took the breaker plate back off (after disconnecting the power jumper), determined to see if there was a short or loose connection somewhere. I tested the continuity of the ground wire which leads to the negative side of the coil (checked out fine), and examined the condenser. The condenser wire looked suspect, like someone had pinched it under the cap and exposed some wire, so I tossed it and put on my spare condenser. Having put on a new condenser, I then reattached the breaker assembly, double-checked the gap on the open points, and reattached my power jumper.

SPARK! Darn nice spark, at that! So, apparently, something funky was happening with that previous condenser?

I took the following videos of the spark (because I was THAT proud of it).

NOTE: The spark only shows intermittently on the video, because the spark flashes faster than the frame rate of the recording. The clicking you're hearing is the spark, even if the camera doesn't capture it.

[YOUTUBE]Zyh87rV9UHo[/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE]JGfrXJTjwws[/YOUTUBE]




Since I was now getting a solid spark, and the engine was timed, I figured... WHY NOT TRY TO START HER UP?! But alas, nothing is easy or me with this engine.

Upon trying to start the engine, it would do nothing but sputter and produce dramatic puffs of smoke.

See for yourself...

[YOUTUBE]2MyrFpzjvIk[/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE]azg0mn_uwyc[/YOUTUBE]


So, now what? What do I check now?

Whats causing all that smoke + non-starting?
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  #36   IP: 67.176.139.142
Old 05-17-2009, 10:55 PM
ChicagoNewport27 ChicagoNewport27 is offline
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By the way, you'll notice in the videos that I've taken the alternator off to get better access to the distributor.

I've also taken all other wire leads off the coil's positive terminal to minimize sources of failure in my attempt to get a spark (you'll probably notice the big jumble of wires that appears in the left side of the video's view; those are various instrumentation leads that I've disconnected to simplify life). This seems to have helped my troubleshooting endeavors immensely.

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  #37   IP: 75.197.170.108
Old 05-18-2009, 08:46 AM
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Thumbs up

Way to go!

Although the feature has been there for a year or two, I think you are the first guy to embed a YouTube video directly in a forum posting.

One of the things that really adds to the value of this forum is the ability to include audiovisual information. The images are immensely valuable, and the YouTube videos even more so, I think.

BTW, did you have the choke closed when attempting to start the engine?

Bill

Last edited by Administrator; 05-18-2009 at 08:51 AM.
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  #38   IP: 71.239.168.214
Old 05-18-2009, 09:01 AM
ChicagoNewport27 ChicagoNewport27 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Administrator View Post
Way to go!

Although the feature has been there for a year or two, I think you are the first guy to embed a YouTube video directly in a forum posting.
Neat! A picture is worth a thousand words, they say.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Administrator View Post
BTW, did you have the choke closed when attempting to start the engine?
I tried it both ways, open and closed, with the same result.
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  #39   IP: 75.197.170.108
Old 05-18-2009, 09:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChicagoNewport27 View Post
I tried it both ways, open and closed, with the same result.
Not to belabor the point, but you visually verified that the choke was completely closed?

Bill
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  #40   IP: 71.239.168.214
Old 05-18-2009, 09:29 AM
ChicagoNewport27 ChicagoNewport27 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Administrator View Post
Not to belabor the point, but you visually verified that the choke was completely closed?

Bill
I worked the choke lever as far as it would go in both directions, trying to start it after each manipulation. However, No, I did not look inside the carb each time to visually verify that the choke actually did close when I had the lever in the closed position.

How would I visually verify that? Would I have to remove the flame arrestor?
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  #41   IP: 198.151.13.8
Old 05-18-2009, 10:17 AM
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Smoke

I am currently trying to work out an issue with my A-4 on another thread. I have seen that exact puff of smoke on my engine. I have a stuck intake valve and no compression on cylinder #1.

I will take my camera down to the boat from now on to take video of my fun.

Dave
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  #42   IP: 206.230.48.34
Old 05-18-2009, 10:51 AM
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Dude, you are close, close, close. Clearly you have fuel, air, and spark. She wants to work for you. But that smoke occurs because the intake valves are open at the wrong time and the exhaust is getting blown backwards out the air intake. That's a "backfire" for an Atomic 4.

That happens because either (1) one or more valves is stuck open--rule out with compression check or (2) your engine is out of sync. Maybe it's just mistimed, which you check by rotating the distributor adjustment throughout its range while trying to start it. (It's also possible that the centrifugal advancing weights are frozen, but I've never had this problem and am not sure how to diagnose this.) Or, your wires may be properly placed on the spark plugs and distributor, but the distributor itself may be incorrectly installed--like 90 or 180 degrees off. Mess with this by labeling the "correct" positions for the plug wires on the distributor but then removing all four wires and reseating them ALL on the distributor cap, one place clockwise or counterclockwise at a time until you've gone all the way around the distributor. And try to start her up at each reseating, rotating the distributor through its range of adjustment.
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  #43   IP: 68.224.125.99
Old 05-18-2009, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChicagoNewport27 View Post
How would I visually verify that? Would I have to remove the flame arrestor?
Yes you'll have to remove the Flame Arrestor.

However, it's worth doing. I had a hard starting problem a while back and when I actually checked the choke this way it wasn't completely closing.
After adjusting the choke cable, it started great every time!

Congrats on the spark! You're getting there!

PS-Sorry for the boring still pic. I didn't have a video...

Last edited by roadnsky; 05-06-2012 at 12:39 PM.
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  #44   IP: 69.33.31.201
Old 05-18-2009, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tenders View Post
Dude, you are close, close, close. Clearly you have fuel, air, and spark. She wants to work for you. But that smoke occurs because the intake valves are open at the wrong time and the exhaust is getting blown backwards out the air intake. That's a "backfire" for an Atomic 4.

That happens because either (1) one or more valves is stuck open--rule out with compression check or (2) your engine is out of sync. Maybe it's just mistimed, which you check by rotating the distributor adjustment throughout its range while trying to start it. (It's also possible that the centrifugal advancing weights are frozen, but I've never had this problem and am not sure how to diagnose this.) Or, your wires may be properly placed on the spark plugs and distributor, but the distributor itself may be incorrectly installed--like 90 or 180 degrees off. Mess with this by labeling the "correct" positions for the plug wires on the distributor but then removing all four wires and reseating them ALL on the distributor cap, one place clockwise or counterclockwise at a time until you've gone all the way around the distributor. And try to start her up at each reseating, rotating the distributor through its range of adjustment.


Going to the boat after work tonight, so I will try this. Thanks!
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  #45   IP: 68.34.11.142
Old 05-18-2009, 02:59 PM
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I'd say Tenders is on the correct trail with the timing being off 180 deg. It sounds like the dist. was put back on with the #1 cylinder @TDC on the Exhaust stroke and not intake stroke. At least you know the flame arrestor is doing it's job or you would have seen flames and not smoke.
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  #46   IP: 69.176.196.198
Old 05-18-2009, 03:34 PM
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Quick note on the choke not closing: I had a recent hard start problem that I tracked down to a frozen swivel on the choke lever (the screw clamp on the wire should swivel). Since it was frozen it stressed the wire in the cable when I closed it and forced itself back open a bit. This was enough to prevent it from starting. Once I replaced the lever, starting problem solved.
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  #47   IP: 69.33.31.201
Old 05-18-2009, 04:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeB.330 View Post
I'd say Tenders is on the correct trail with the timing being off 180 deg. It sounds like the dist. was put back on with the #1 cylinder @TDC on the Exhaust stroke and not intake stroke. At least you know the flame arrestor is doing it's job or you would have seen flames and not smoke.
I hope its as simple as that! I'll definitely investigate more tonight.
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  #48   IP: 71.239.168.214
Old 05-19-2009, 09:52 AM
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Yay!

SUCCESS!!!

Turns out after the last re-timing, I had placed the distributor 90 degrees out of timing. I re-timed everything and she fired right up.

SEE FOR YOURSELVES!



Starting her up...

[YOUTUBE]nQeYE3jvFxA[/YOUTUBE]



And the exhaust seems to be spitting out water, too.

[YOUTUBE]nWR5fgS7j0g[/YOUTUBE]





I was running out of daylight this evening, but in the next couple days I'll take a spin around the harbor to see how she holds up in gear and under power.

Since I still have the alternator out, I'm going to take it to have it tested at an auto shop.

To all that helped and sent me well wishes and good vibes... THANK YOU!
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  #49   IP: 216.120.197.130
Old 05-19-2009, 10:42 AM
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Good job!

Isn't it satisfying? I think it is even more so when you have done all the work yourself.
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  #50   IP: 69.33.31.201
Old 05-19-2009, 12:53 PM
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Satisfying is correct, yes, but it seems like an understatement.

I've had the boat for 3 years, and this engine problem has always stymied me. The PO had the boat for 13 years before that, and apparently he gave up at some point and just put an outboard on the back. For this engine to roar to life like that was completely fulfilling.

I'm walking around the office today like I just climbed Everest. One coworker came into my office, closed the door, and said, "Man, you're like glowing today. Did you get l*id or something?"

"No," I said, " Something better. I finally got my engine running." He gave me a completely puzzled look and walked out.

Some people just wont understand the feeling of peace and contentment and accomplishment I'm carrying around today, and that's fine.

Tomorrow, I'll get back to work on that neverending sailboat task list. But today... today... I'm gonna just savor this for a day.

Thanks again folks!

Sincerely,
Ken "sporting a new sh*t-eating grin" Wallace


Last edited by ChicagoNewport27; 05-19-2009 at 01:10 PM. Reason: Edited out a few expletives.
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