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  #1   IP: 141.248.3.2
Old 09-21-2009, 01:24 PM
willsr willsr is offline
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Oil in #2 Cylinder

After running 6 hours to get home with a partially clogged fuel line causing low power, I shut down for the night. The next morning I pulled the plugs to do a pressure check and found # 2 cylinder was wet with oil and the others had some black fouling. Compression check showed 90 pounds in all cylinders. There was no smoke the previous day but started smoking after the compression check.
If I had a stuck or broken oil ring how would the oil get into the cylinder from sitting?
Anyone else have a similar problem?
Thanks
Steve
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  #2   IP: 71.118.13.238
Old 09-22-2009, 02:44 PM
Dave Neptune Dave Neptune is offline
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Question Fouled plugs

Steve, if your plugs were fouled I doubt that you had a lack of fuel flow, probably to much. As far as the oil in #-2 I would suspect that it is mostly unburned fuel and oil from a lack of combustion since your compression is so good. Was the #-2 plug the worst? If so I would check for a blockage in an air corrector (jet) which could cause an over-rich mixture. You can get to most of the air jets without removing or disassembling the carb, just use some carb spray. If you had a lack of fuel it could be caused inside the carb by a plugged jet.

Your lack of power could be from flooding the cylinders with to much fuel. Check to be sure that the choke is fully opening after starting and readjust the idle. If you still have a fouling problem it is something in the carb like a stuck float or a comprimised bowl gasket.

The oil couldn't get on top of the piston while sitting unless you rolled the boat over. A little will get by if you have a broken oil ring while the others are intact.

A little more info may help.

Dave Neptune
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  #3   IP: 141.248.3.2
Old 09-22-2009, 04:05 PM
willsr willsr is offline
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oil in #2 cylinder

Thanks Dave
So far I suspect the power loss due to the fuel lines being old.
2 years ago I installed a fuel/water separator and when I attached the fuel line a small piece of the inside wall lodged in the fitting letting just a small amount of fuel through.
Last week the engine ran fine from Oceanside to Newport, about 6 hours and even stayed ahead of the other boats holding the RPM at 1800.
The next day we started across to Catalina. After about two hours I started to lose power. I slowed down, pumped the throttle back and forth a few times and got the power back. After awhile this became more and more frequent until I could only get between 3.8 and 4.3 knots. Also the engine could only idle a short time before stopping.

I installed a spare fuel pump and bypassed the big filter with a small see-through and noticed from the short trip from the Isthmus to Avalon just a trickle of gas was coming from the tank. I checked the filter the next morining and it had filled up.
Also the next morning when I pulled the plugs and saw the oil in the #2 Cylinder.
I put them back and started the engine. It was the first time I had seen any smoke.
I put some MMO in the cylinder and will check it this weekend. Hopefully it is just stuck.
Thanks
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  #4   IP: 71.118.13.238
Old 09-22-2009, 06:04 PM
Dave Neptune Dave Neptune is offline
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Question fuel

Steve, I too was sailing around the island, over and back 3~4 hours on the A-4. I have a mooring in Emerald Bay.

From you saying playing with the throttle made a bit of a difference, you could still have fuel delivery issues. However when the fuel is being delivered it is at to rich a mixture, thus the sooty plugs. You could easily have a problem compounded by another problem.

What color was the smoke?

David
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  #5   IP: 141.248.3.2
Old 09-23-2009, 11:42 AM
willsr willsr is offline
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oil in #2 cylinder

Thanks Dave.
The smoke was whitish blue.
A local mechanic provided a spark plug extension so the plug wouldn't foul but when I started up I noticed no water was coming out the exhaust. That's when I called Vessel Assist and got towed back to Oceanside. Turned out the set screw on the water pump pulley had backed off and the hole in the pulley had been enlarged from turning on the pump shaft. At first I felt bad being towed because after all it is a sailboat but turned out there was no wind the whole 47 miles.

I'm going to work on it Saturday and let you know what I find.
Thanks
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  #6   IP: 173.58.73.192
Old 09-27-2009, 12:22 PM
willsr willsr is offline
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oil in # 2 cylinder

Now that the boat is back and I have time to troubleshoot it appears that instead of oil it was unburned fuel in the cylinder. I had some old plug wires that used and all 4 cylinders are firing so it must have been a bad plug wire.
I installed the new pulley for the sea water pump. but still no water out the exhaust. I flushed out the heat exchanger with a water hose and that opened it up.
I still don't have power under load. I bought a bulb and hooked it up backwards to clear the line then turned it around to get fuel and it seems to work OK.

I have two clear fuel filters and at rest they seem to fill up but when I run the engine under load the fuel emptys out of the filter and I just see a trickle going through.

Could this mean the fuel is blocked from the tank or is air getting in?
Thanks
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  #7   IP: 64.203.32.52
Old 09-27-2009, 01:08 PM
Dave Neptune Dave Neptune is offline
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Red face Fuel flow

Steve, good that you found the plug wire problem. As far as the fuel levles in the filters "dropping" AND/OR filling with air, is a good indication of possibly both problems. If you have a restriction in the tank pick-up tube it could cause a seemingly good clamped fitting to draw in a little air that normally wouldn't. Check the integrity of every fitting on the fuel line. Make sure that the fittings and the fuel lines are the same size. I have seen way to many 5/16 lines clamped on to a 1/4" fitting and causing problems after a while.
Once you are sure of the fuel lines integrity and the opperation of the fuel pump as well it will be time to look at the tank.
Most tanks are set up so you can remove the pick-up tube and hopefully so is yours. I have seen things floating in a tank that caused intermittant problems as well as something getting stuck in the tube. You may nave a plugged screen or sock type strainer on the pick-up that is plugging up also.
On my boat I removed the screen and installed a Racor filter unit which feeds the mechanical pump's filter screen, then from the pump to a fuel preassure gage. At the gage I have a shut off valve then a clear filter just ahead of the carb.
It doesn't take much of a leak to reak havoc with fuel preassure!!!!!!!!!!

Good luck! Dave Neptune
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  #8   IP: 173.58.73.192
Old 09-27-2009, 01:21 PM
willsr willsr is offline
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fuel flow

Thanks Dave.
It looks like I need to go through the whole system but there is no access the the pickup tube. The fuel tank is in the stern of my Ranger 33. I need to install a stern hatch before I can get to it.

One question: After making sure there are no air leaks, how do you purge the air out of the fuel line/filter?
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  #9   IP: 64.203.32.52
Old 09-27-2009, 02:27 PM
Dave Neptune Dave Neptune is offline
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Talking Air

Steve, the air will work it's way out except where a bubble stays above the fuel flow levels in the filters. A gas engine with a carb does not require purging.
If you don't find any loose connections ie no difference in performannce after checking the integrity of the connections, try this. Get an outboard style priming bulb and connect it directly to the tank line before any filters and pump some fuel into a container. If the fuel doesn't pump out easily get ready for the new hatch. If you get some crud out, so keep pumping until it pumps out clean. You can put most of the fuel back in the tank with a fuel strainer or just by being carefull to dump just the fuel.
If the pick-up is plugged and you can get close to enough to the pick-up line you may be able to snake a wire into the line to see if you can clear out anything. This may tell you if there is a screen over the tube in the tank. That screen could be the offender!! You could poke some holes in it and then be sure to install a good water seperator type filter as you will start sucking the KRAP out of the tank. This could be a problem for a while as the filter will trap the KRAP and you will eventually get most of it out. The filter is not difficult to change so mount it in an easily accessable spot for maintenance and changing out the filter.

Dave
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