#26
IP: 137.103.82.194
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14 PSI would blow right past the cap on my HX. Is that cold?
Also watch for side effects from a hotter engine. You can run a glycol mix to at least 220 degrees, but that much heat may cause other issues. In my case steady running at 180 causes vapor lock issues after a couple of hours, which is why for now I am back to RWC. |
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TimBSmith (09-28-2022) |
#27
IP: 24.152.132.140
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14# sounds like something's constipated.
__________________
Neil 1977 Catalina 30 San Pedro, California prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22 Had my hands in a few others |
#29
IP: 24.152.132.140
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Quote:
Bill, I did not read where you took any measures to enlarge or clean out the coolant passages as part of this installation. Also, what is the current thermostat/bypass configuration?
__________________
Neil 1977 Catalina 30 San Pedro, California prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22 Had my hands in a few others |
The Following User Says Thank You to ndutton For This Useful Post: | ||
TimBSmith (09-28-2022) |
#30
IP: 72.218.163.249
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Tom came down yesterday and we experimented with regards to lowering the pressure.
We tried: With and without the thermostat (MMI), with and without the bypass valve (MMI), larger (5/8) thermostat housing to manifold hose and fittings, circumvent the manifold all together. Lowered the psi a pound or two at best. So far conclusions: the main restriction is T inlet (which also has a hole directed between #2 and 3 cyl.), all the fittings and hoses add up. The 14psi appears to be on the injector T not anywhere else. Results thus far: There is good flow and we did 2 full power runs (1600rpm) for half an hr each 165 to 170 was highest temp. The thermostat hardly opened but when it did the delta P was - 1/2 psi. Yes the box was open. Yes the prop is barnacled up and yes tied to the dock(good load), and yes the bay water is cooler than in the summer. BTW: purging that air from this is very easy. The pump shuts down temporarily when it cavitates. Adding water to the HX while it does that, it takes about 30 seconds to a minute before all the air is out. I think having the HX 3 feet+ above the pump and no dips or valleys in the hose runs helps. This is a new head and while I replaced it I cleaned all passages and the side cooling plenum (or whatever it is called). All new hoses. I hope I answered all questions in my write up and faithfully described our attempts to discover where the high pressure is coming from. Now the great news: the rigger said he'd most likely install the new mast (and all new rigging) Friday. Still a hope I'll be sailing again by New Years.
__________________
Bill McLean '76 Ericson 27 :valhalla: Norfolk, VA |
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TimBSmith (09-28-2022) |
#31
IP: 137.200.32.22
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I think you may want to make a 3 inlet side plate. Someone on here had one and it looked very nice. If not that, at least re-engineer the one inlet for more flow.
I would also leave the filter on. The HX has tiny passages and they clog up very easily. |
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TimBSmith (09-28-2022) |
#32
IP: 97.93.70.7
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Bill, is the hi-pressure between the pump and the injection tee?
If it is that is not really that bad and actually kinda good. I ran and worked on a lot of boats on the lower Co River which is shallow and very sandy. Pumps on OB's and inboards were getting chewed up when ever running due to the silt and sand. Many of the regulars and I ran a pressure gage on the cooling system to monitor our pumps. These gages were most always mounted by the tach. for easy visibility. I ran big OB's and a new pump would yield about 10~12 PSI when it would begin to drop we would replace the impeller's or lower the trim. Your 14PSI is a bit high but not really worrisome IMHO. I do have another question as to what "shoe" you have in the pump? Perhaps a smaller shoe would fix the worries for you. Dave Neptune |
#33
IP: 72.218.163.249
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Yes I am reasonably convinced the hi P is between the pump and the injection T.
Larger holes in the T? 3 holes? Good ideas. I am not worried and will wait to see how it holds temp when summer rolls around. I am pleased with the system's performance tied to a dock.
__________________
Bill McLean '76 Ericson 27 :valhalla: Norfolk, VA |
#34
IP: 24.152.132.140
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I upsized my sideplate Tee to 1/2" NPT. The new diverter cap has three holes: one 3/8" down and forward, one 3/8" down and aft and one 1/4" straight through. It has worked well for me.
__________________
Neil 1977 Catalina 30 San Pedro, California prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22 Had my hands in a few others Last edited by ndutton; 12-27-2018 at 08:48 PM. |
The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to ndutton For This Useful Post: | ||
Administrator (12-27-2018), alcodiesel (12-28-2018), Dave Neptune (12-27-2018), Elmo (05-20-2019), sastanley (12-28-2018), thatch (12-27-2018), TimBSmith (09-28-2022) |
#35
IP: 74.107.30.131
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Plus 1 on Neil's suggestions. I think there is a bit of a restriction at the sideplate as originally designed. As Neil's pic shows, the cast pieces are smoother for more flow than machined. I upsized all my stuff on the side plate too. I also eliminated the Moyer bypass and removed the t-stat so that all cooling goes straight up and thru. It takes it a little longer to warm up when the weather is not hot with no t-stat, but I have a slightly undersized (I think) HX, so I am looking for maximum cooling. I run 165-170°F at 2,000 RPM cruise and 190°F at WOT.
__________________
-Shawn "Holiday" - '89 Alura 35 #109 "Twice Around" - '77 C-30, #511 with original A-4 & MMI manifold - SOLD! (no longer a two boat owner!!) |
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TimBSmith (09-28-2022) |
#36
IP: 24.152.132.140
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The great advantage I have recently enjoyed is with opening up the system for better flow and maximizing the HX size for the available space I now have the new MMI thermostat controlling the temperature, something unheard of when I started with electric FWC. I always had the larger sideplate fittings but my original HX was barely adequate. You'll notice I haven't offered the old HX to anyone on this forum. If it was marginal for me there was no reason to expect it to be different for anyone else. Let's not make my problem your problem.
As first installed with no thermostat and bypass fully closed (maximum cooling) I was running at 180° at cruising speed. Pushing her to WOT the temp would creep up beyond that. It worked, reached its own equilibrium but under no circumstances could it be considered controlled.
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Neil 1977 Catalina 30 San Pedro, California prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22 Had my hands in a few others Last edited by ndutton; 12-28-2018 at 10:52 PM. |
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TimBSmith (09-28-2022) |
#37
IP: 74.107.30.131
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Neil, If I ever get a bigger HX, I would add the MMI t-stat back in. For now, I am running wide open on the cooling side for the same reasons you did with the smaller HX.
__________________
-Shawn "Holiday" - '89 Alura 35 #109 "Twice Around" - '77 C-30, #511 with original A-4 & MMI manifold - SOLD! (no longer a two boat owner!!) |
The Following User Says Thank You to sastanley For This Useful Post: | ||
TimBSmith (09-28-2022) |
#38
IP: 72.218.163.249
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I've been out maybe half a dozen times and run the A4 for maybe half an hour each way. In these colder waters the temp has not gone over a little under 140 and usually hovers around 120. I'd like it hotter and I figure that will happen when the bay water is 40 degrees warmer in the summer.
So no issues and I am going to drain the water and put in anti freeze today. BTW I do like the idea that for the most part my A4 is no longer corroding and gunking up inside. I'll be the only one aboard with clogged arteries. It seems my reluctance to add another system (anti KISS) to the boat was unfounded.
__________________
Bill McLean '76 Ericson 27 :valhalla: Norfolk, VA |
The Following User Says Thank You to alcodiesel For This Useful Post: | ||
TimBSmith (09-28-2022) |
#39
IP: 108.197.8.248
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After reading all the previous posts, I just want to say that after running for two hours yesterday my 5 year old Indigo system is working great. I dialed in 185 degrees under load and can drop the temp to 170 for a cool down, but don't bother doing that much anymore during the winter. My boat is an Ericson 32 with most of the improvements from Indgo and Moyer.
The newer Indigo cooling system sounds nice, but I am very pleased with the original electric pump and thermo coupler. One practice in summer is that I leave the ignition on for five minutes after shutting down, which quickly cools and stabilizes the temperatures in the compartment. I do have to clean calcium build-up in the raw water side annually. This may be due to a mine near me on the Pamlico....... not sure, but definitely a high build up. The benefits of the constant engine temperature in cold water, includes not seeing the temperature gauge zooming down every time the thermostat opens, and not having to use the choke to keep the motor running at low RPM. Also it seem to be more efficient on fuel consumption. And I don't have the constant monitoring and insecurity in tight maneuvering. |
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TimBSmith (09-28-2022) |
#40
IP: 24.152.132.140
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Quote:
Lord have mercy!
__________________
Neil 1977 Catalina 30 San Pedro, California prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22 Had my hands in a few others Last edited by ndutton; 01-10-2019 at 10:58 PM. |
The Following User Says Thank You to ndutton For This Useful Post: | ||
Peter (01-11-2019) |
#41
IP: 24.53.89.131
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worried about the coil?
I too was concerned about the five minutes of ignition on with no engine running. This is a very good way to ruin a coil.
If you wish to run the pump after shutting down, it would be advisable to figure out a way to do that without providing power to the coil. On my boat I inserted a toggle switch in the wire from the key switch to the coil. I can turn the engine instruments on without powering up the coil. I did this to allow me to monitor temperature after the engine is shutdown. You may wish to consider a similar arrangement. Peter |
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Administrator (01-11-2019), TimBSmith (09-28-2022) |
#42
IP: 137.200.32.54
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There are some EI modules that tolerate being on after shut down. If you don't have one of them -
When I had my FWC set up I had two pumps and one ran from its own switch independent of the ignition |
#43
IP: 72.218.166.134
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Now with about 25 hrs on this new system including one hard run against the current for over an hour, nearly full throttle. Temp remains 140ish in slightly warmer bay. Then:
I installed the new super delux Moyer thermostat. Temps are now 180 to 200. Even though I know a hotter engine is happier I nervously watched all parameters (including engine sound) closely. My head said one thing my heart another. Results: the engine is quieter, smoother sounding. Runs as well as ever. I get a shade over 100 more rpms more at wot- same, if not, dirtier prop and bottom. Very happy with performance.
__________________
Bill McLean '76 Ericson 27 :valhalla: Norfolk, VA |
The Following User Says Thank You to alcodiesel For This Useful Post: | ||
TimBSmith (09-28-2022) |
#44
IP: 137.200.32.6
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My problem with 180-200 range is twofold:
1. It heats the boat up. 2. After a couple of hours I start getting erratic fuel pressure and eventually the engine will quit. Seems to be getting vapor lock. |
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TimBSmith (09-28-2022) |
#45
IP: 70.186.199.118
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Indigo FWC update
260 hours later with the Indigo FWC system.
+Engine runs great. +Engine totally reliable. No running issues. -Still cannot find where very slow leak of antifreeze is coming from. not sure it has anything to do with Indigo. -Not related to Indigo, related to Moyer: The Moyer thermostat kept the temp too high for me (200-210). No thermostat- 140 tops, too cool for me. Original thermostat: 150 to 170. I like that temp range. Very happy with the Indigo FWC with the no longer available brushless DC pump
__________________
Bill McLean '76 Ericson 27 :valhalla: Norfolk, VA |
#46
IP: 138.207.177.95
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Quote:
Did Indigo quit selling the new style pump and go back to the old Johnson pumps? I notice all mention of the new pumps is off their website. I have given some thought to putting the FWC system back on, I have plumbed in a fuel/vapor return line to the fuel system so I no longer have issues with vapor lock. |
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TimBSmith (09-28-2022) |
#47
IP: 70.186.199.118
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Yeah Tom of Indigo said he got a batch of the new style pumps that wouldn't hold up and went back to the old style.
The first ones he got are reliable. I am glad I got one of those. Runs like a champ. Wish I bought a spare.
__________________
Bill McLean '76 Ericson 27 :valhalla: Norfolk, VA |
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TimBSmith (11-18-2021) |
#48
IP: 138.207.177.95
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Quote:
I might go to a mechanical pump or maybe try these: https://www.amazon.com/Bosch-0392020...INE_WATER_PUMP Tom ran into the Chinese Problem, you may get really good stuff cheap and at any random time it can be terrible. You might order 5 pumps and get 3 good ones, one marginal pump, and one DOA. |
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TimBSmith (11-18-2021) |
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