Indigo

[ndutton]

Hanley, a few quick responses:

I agree that engine misalignment was a major contributing factor and it is therefore critical that it be properly aligned after this exercise, including being centered in the shaft log.

Decreasing concentric layers or concentric tubes - that's not the way shaft logs were made. They were monolithic laminations and untapered.

Increasing the hose size to accommodate the shaft log creates a fit problem with the stuffing box.

My lengthy post was my nickel's worth, this is another $.02.

Out.

[hanleyclifford]

some common ground

I agree with all of the previous post, and stand corrected on the matter of concentric construction. However, regarding the shaft log hose, let's get a bigger stuffing box and not grind away precious material from the log!

[sastanley]

Neil, while you were typing this I was out sailing on a boat named "Easy Button", because there are no complicated systems and it has an outboard (Colgate 26 we race on Wednesday nights) - we were 3rd tonight, but only 7 seconds separated 1st from 3rd in our PHRF class.

Anyway, I followed most of that but will need to research the different types of mat/roving, etc.. to know what you are talking about.

I have no issue with going to a larger hose diameter if that can be done. I'll dig around and see..if I recall, they seem to offer different sized hoses on the stuffing box for a given shaft diameter.

Glass work is fun. I am slow and not good at it. I buy the West System 206 slow hardener to give me more working time on projects like this

edit - when I do the initial alignment, do I have to press the shaft on the coupling? I hope I don't have to do 5 more hours of pressing the shaft off? With a new coupling and shaft is it easier?

Bed time now..thanks for the extensive post.

Hanley, I'll try to get to the boat soon again, and snap some more pictures to try and determine if there is any other damage to the shaft log that we haven't seen yet.

[sastanley]

Shawn, I think that this thread has been a "gob" of "related" bits of information regarding the Indigo, your adventures to get the Indigo installed and a bit of what has been found by a few of us with the Indigo. This has also been a great thread to follow due to all of the ideas related to modifying the drive line due to your "it's gotta be right" attitude and I admire your conciensus efforts. Personally I'm a bit lazy and would have made it a winter ( in southern California) project.

That's why I started the separate thread for the 2:1 guys, which may also prove to be a good one in time.

Kudos to ya Shawn and it's almost my fault (??)!

Dave Neptune

I still blame it all on Dave Neptune

Ok, I am really going to bed now.

[Dave Neptune]

Shaft

Shawn, was the old shaft bent? If not once you have the engine aligned with the strut you could use the "shaft" as a mandrel of sorts to hold the "log tube" in alignment. Use some paper or tape on both ends of the tube but wrapped around the shaft for a snug fit and that will hold the log tube in place while you glass it in place. Note~~as you wrap the tape or paper around use a sieres of short pieces that are just a bit shorter than the circumfrence of the shaft and alternate the gaps. this will maintain concentricity with in the log while you goober-snot it in place.
The new shaft and the old one once removed and cleaned should slide in and out of the coupling easily
The reduced diameter on some "log boxes" are a bit smaller diameter than the tube to keep the shaft out of contact with the log tube, the down side is that the alignment of that diameter relies on a hose which sometimes even has a bit of a curve to it.
Slow and easy does it. You want a "Nice smooth surface" to mount the hose of the log to and in most cases a bit of the original glass log proturdes enough to handle the mounting. I advise that while glassig into plase you keep at least an 1 1/2" of the glass log untouched for that purpose.
I did glass work for a few years and finally got tired of itching. During that time I re-did a few logs and re-set many rudders to strengthen, reposition or replace. It usually took more time to get things held in place than it did to do the glass work. Again "easy does it".
A saying from a racing buddy "Buy-it or do-it RIGHT and cry once!", otherwise you'll keep crying money.
If you bring the boat to so-cal I'll do the glass work for you!
Lets get this boat on the water and tuned for the Indigo while SAILING _/)

Dave Neptune

[sastanley]

So, a buddy in my sailing club gave me an idea this morning.

A laser pointer mounted in the prop strut firing at the engine coupler.

Dave, I need to pick up a puller to get the prop off before I can tell if the shaft is bent, so I don't know the answer yet..heading out at lunch time to pick one up so I can yank that thing this afternoon.

And no kidding on the sailing thing. I already spent $$ & lots of time to strengthen/repair the bulkheads & chainplates and all new standing rigging & wiring and I haven't even used it yet!

[keelcooler]

Shawn, Put away the grinder, it’s hand sanding from here on out until the glass work is complete. After hand sanding acetone clean inside and out the remove all oils. You only get one shot in providing a proper bond to the old tube surfaces.

I would suggest starting glass build up on the inside first using thin cloth strips, not tape. Three to four overlapping strips on the inside top, extending down the tube 8” or so. Cut off an old mop handle and wrap w/wax paper. Insert same in the tube, force up and secure until fully cured.

Use only 316L stainless for shaft material. Have the shop fit the coupler and resurface if needed. You’ve come this far pilgrim, consider a new strut bearing.

Insert new shaft, target in the tube center and fit temp block under shaft in bilge to hold steady. Check the strut bearing, is it pinching top or bottom? If so you may want to shim as needed.

With everything targeted properly, fit the coupler and align/adjust engine to coupler. Good luck my friend.

[sastanley]

stuffing box hose sizes

Buck Algonquin sells stuffing box assemblies with a range of hose sizes..1 1/2" all the way up to 2 1/4" for a 1" shaft...so building up the tube thickness a little is an easy possibility.

http://www.deepblueyachtsupply.com/series.aspx?id=185

I just picked up one of those knock-offs to the Fein multi-tool..looks like I might get a chance to use it

Thanks again to everyone for the advise, their experiences, and wisdom. It is greatly appreciated. Lots of boat work & pictures this weekend.

[ndutton]

Shawn,
Here's a pertinent post from the C-30 Yahoo site:

I’ve been using a PSS for about 6 years. I probably have about 200 hours on it including some long distance canal work. I have never had a problem with it. I do not have a vent tube and so should burp it but frequently don’t. Previously I had a traditional stuffing box that I was not particularly adept at adjusting. On a long trip one of the engine mount nuts came off. I noticed the vibration after awhile and then found the nut in the bilge. I put it back on and tightened it down. All fixed or so I thought. I continued on my trip. One day I noticed water on the cabin floor. I have a manual bilge pump only. The stuffing box seemed to be leaking. I tightened it no help loosened it no help. It continued to get worse throughout the next several days including canal work and eventually reached a point that there was an 1/8 inch stream of water coming in. It turns out that while the top nut was off the engine mount, vibration had moved the lower nut down resulting in serious misalignment. This allowed the shaft to wear through the stern tube. Thus a minor problem turned into a major expense. Turns out if you try to make something idiot proof God will produce a better idiot.

This suggests to me that in the history of your boat there may have been a similar problem with a forward engine mount: upper nut loose, lower nut vibrated down, front of engine worked its way down elevating the rear of the engine with the rear mount as a fulcrum, shaft misaligns to the upper region of the shaft log, wears through eventually (among other alignment related nastiness).

Looks like it's time to check my engine mounts.

[thatch]

Better late than never.

Dave Neptune,
Sorry for this delayed followup question regarding your plug gaps. The inlaws showed up and the computer room suddenly became a nursery. Since your electronic ignition is 25 years old I'm guessing that it's not a Pertronics unit. Basically, how much of a voltage upgrade do you have to support the larger gaps?
Tom

[Dave Neptune]

Ignition (off base)

Tom, originally I built my own set up inside the distributor. As I stated I have a background in perfomance applications, so I grabbed an Allison optical trigger type that we had good luck with on off road rotary engines getting to 10,000 rpm's plus so I didn't think that rpm's would be a problem and the unit could take a literal beating. When I installed it I still used the stock coil as the Allison worked at 12 volts. The additional gap is nothing for the stock coil. The standard point type ignition starts out OK then the points start to get a bit dirty and voltages drop as does coil saturation causing a weakening spark. As the points wear it loads up the coil a bit. With the electronic there is no wear so you get a good clean spark every time. The Allison was capable of 12,500 rpm's and 12 cylinders so the A-4 was nothing.
The stock A-4 ignition should have no problem with a bit more gap which is a bit advantageous at low rpm's say under 4,500 rpm's or so. Don't forget that the gap does wear with either type of ignition however the signal and coil don't see any changes regarding wear.
About 5 years ago I installed the Indigo (sorry I hadn't found MMI yet) because it had an indicator light that let you know the ignition was working so I removed the Allison and keep it as a backup for my dune buggy which uses an Allison as well. I also still use a stock 12 volt coil and not the ballast resistor type. If this coil fails I may try a hotter coil but I think there would be little differance in a low rpm lugger like our presious A-4's.

Davd Neptune

[thatch]

Amazing journey!

Dave N,
Thanks for sharing your ignition history with us. I was thinking you might have gone to a CD or other high output system.
Ever think of "indexing" your plugs to get the flame pointed in the right direction?
Tom

[Dave Neptune]

Indexing

Tom, yes we played with indexing a bit with magneto 2-strokes however about that time CD types became available and we started using surface gap style plugs. I did work with a really hot CD set up by Prestolite that had warnings about burning holes in your hands or fingers if you got in the way of the spark. I did meet a guy who said he burnt a hole clear through his thumb with one and he said it was quite painfull. Just a burn mark in and out~~ouch!

Now lets get Shawn a runnin' with some good wishes!

Dave Neptune

[sastanley]

Thanks guys..don't mind the commentary at all while I am idle.

Shaft log reconstruction begins tomorrow.

This evening, me & some friends are getting ready to head out to hopefully meet up with some local friends that started the Annapolis to Bermuda race today as they sail by the Patuxent River..I don't think we'll see them though..the race tracker reports they are still well north with little breeze.

Sounds like we'll have a nice booze cruise though

[thatch]

"Pregnant with anticipation"

Dave N and Shawn,
My ignition inquireys were probably more about making small talk than anything else, kind of like the expectant father paceing the hospital halls waiting for the news of a newborn, but in this case were waiting for a good resolution to the stuffing box project. Good sailing Shawn.
Tom