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  #1   IP: 76.122.168.101
Old 03-18-2013, 09:39 PM
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marthur marthur is offline
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Oil Return: Oil Filter

I have a way cool thing on my early model spare motor: the old style oil change pump. And I have a working spare for this rare item that I would like to put on the (late model) motor in my boat. For those of you unfamiliar with this thing, it is a permanently mounted oil extraction pump mounted on the port side of the motor under the fuel pump. Most of these items are lost to the ravages of time (dried seals, etc...) but through some miracle of long term storage both of mine work great!

But here is the question: If I wish to use the oil port on the port side of the engine for an the old style oil change pump, where can I run my Indigo Oil Filter return line? The old style oil pump goes into that port and so does the oil return line for the Oil Filter.

Could I drill and tap a fitting into my reversing gear cover? Valve cover plate? Any ideas or am I stuck with two cool things and only one place to put them?
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Old 03-18-2013, 10:35 PM
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Mark Millbauer Mark Millbauer is offline
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Have you already done the Kaminski modification? If so, since it's just returning the oil, I'm sure one could rig something up by adapting the pipe plug use to access the reversing band bolt.

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Old 03-19-2013, 12:44 AM
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If you have deleted your mechanical fuel pump, the push rod hole is handy and tappable:

Last edited by hanleyclifford; 07-13-2016 at 08:32 PM.
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Old 03-19-2013, 07:05 AM
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Quote:
If you have deleted your mechanical fuel pump
Nope! I am a mechanical pump man through and through. I know there are advantages either way, but I like the simplicity and reliability of the mechanical pump. However, I am beginning to think this is something like Coke vs Pepsi, who you marry or anchor choice. Not totally commanded by the rational part of our brains.
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Old 03-19-2013, 07:10 AM
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Quote:
Have you already done the Kaminski modification?
Not yet but this is a good idea. My question is then about the oil squirting in at that point. Is there any disadvantage to it? I assume that all of the reversing gear components are bathed in oil anyway. Would the additional oil spraying in make the reversing band or forward mechanism more like to slip?
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Old 03-19-2013, 08:23 AM
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I wondered about the reversing band too when I suggested the Kaminski idea. You might want tho tap (pun?) Don's brain on that one. The reversing gear cover or even the aft end of the valve cover could work. You can even weld a fitting on to them if need be and they are easily and inexpensively replaceable if things don't work out.
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Old 03-19-2013, 08:54 AM
Dave Neptune Dave Neptune is offline
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Lightbulb Mine works

Mike,when I installed my "bypass type filter I plumbed the return to the gear case cover. The oil drops down on top of the drum, never been a problem. Now I don't have the volume of flow however it is easy access to the "pan" which is where you want it anyway. On the plus side it can be easily removed for tapping and no chips in the pan.

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Old 03-19-2013, 10:37 AM
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Thanks Dave, that is what I wanted to know
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Old 03-19-2013, 03:33 PM
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I have the Indigo filter system's return installed in the side pan oil port, with a tee in the line. The tee connects to a ball valve, and I attach my portable suction pump to the other side of the valve. Open the valve and suck the oil out. Seems to work great, and I get the best of both worlds.

I guess it works because my suction pump doesn't generate a pressure differential anywhere near the oil pressure regulator's setpoint, so it never opens, and all the oil comes from the return side.
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Old 03-19-2013, 04:23 PM
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To build an oil fiter system from scratch, would this work?
Below the port to the valves there are three 1/8 npt holes tapped directly into the oil line of the block. Front, middle and rear. The one in the middle, behind the carb goes generally unused. So running a line, the size of the scavenge tube, to a small oil filter, then on to the block, shoud be all that the Atomic 4 needs to filter out years of contaninates.
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Old 03-19-2013, 08:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sony2000 View Post
To build an oil fiter system from scratch, would this work?
Below the port to the valves there are three 1/8 npt holes tapped directly into the oil line of the block. Front, middle and rear. The one in the middle, behind the carb goes generally unused. So running a line, the size of the scavenge tube, to a small oil filter, then on to the block, shoud be all that the Atomic 4 needs to filter out years of contaninates.
That would work but a relief valve would still be needed to maintain oil pressure.
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Old 03-19-2013, 10:06 PM
Sony2000 Sony2000 is offline
 
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The small tube take off, ressistance from the weave of the filter, and possibly some oil pressure adjustment, maybe all that is required. Even if I loose a couple of pounds pressure, I would be in a good range. I have a universal unit that would accept a number of automotive filters. Diameter and thread size are only the requirements.
Moyer Marine could put together something, and sell it from in house, with or without, a regulator/relief/check valve.

Last edited by Sony2000; 03-19-2013 at 10:09 PM.
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Old 03-19-2013, 11:19 PM
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Sony,

I'm a big fan of innovative thinking and you never know when one idea will lead to another and perhaps to a viable product. You just never know. I'd suggest when considering A-4 oil filtration, consider what would make a better mousetrap either in terms of design, price or both in comparison to the already available product.

For example - and this is no joke - who remembers the Frantz Oil Filter system that used toilet paper rolls for filter elements? The first one I saw was in the 60's. I'm not saying it's good, bad or somewhere in between but here's a case of someone thinking unconventionally. They're still around, even make a marine unit although I'd say they're pretty proud of it ($$$).

http://www.frantzoil.com/home.html
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Old 03-20-2013, 08:13 AM
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Yes, toilet paper works, even thought of all the paper towels, it is the one that is designed to fall apart in the sewer! Best to try Bounty.
Getting back to the filter, the return oil flow could enter the block through the little used sump access just below the 1/8 npt.
Well, now I have a project for next winter.
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Old 03-20-2013, 08:54 AM
Dave Neptune Dave Neptune is offline
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Lightbulb Filters

Those Frantz filters worked pretty good, I had one on my first carr a 56' slide window Parklane Wagon. It kept the 292's engine oil "clear" even when ready to change, until I dropped in a "supercharged 406"~yeah baby!. Note the Frantz units were a "bypass" type and Fram makes a nice one too. I have used the Fram F-4 unit on my A-4 for well over 20 years now and I have seen a couple others in pics on this site and on many small marine engines including diesels. There are two types of filter available and I use the "finer" "P" type.
Sony, the bypass type is not a "full flow" and "bleeds" through a tiny orifice so as not to reduce the oil preassure "much". When I hooked mine up and re-lit the beastie I could barely notice the drop on my gage and did not compinsate by adjusting~it's been over 20 years!! My oil stays clear all season so I change when it smells usually at the "END" of the season so she sits in clean oil for her down time snooze.

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Old 03-20-2013, 01:23 PM
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FYI:
I had a DIY bypass oil filter for years before I got the Indigo unit. I just used a valve to set the bypass amount and kept an eye on the oil pressure. The drawback is the human error issue where you can set it wrong or bump it. I would set the oil pressure to 45 and set the bleed valve to bring it down to 40 more or less.
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Old 05-19-2013, 12:56 PM
Carl-T705 Carl-T705 is offline
 
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paper filters

If interested in this type of filter, check out : www.gulfcoastfilters.com It's interesting read, I run one on my diesel Detroit engine and change the oil it this engine every 100,000 miles whether it needs a change or not. A friend who has run these filters for years rarely changes his oil and his engines run over 1 million miles. I use Scott triple roll paper towels but any brand will work. I'm always amazed when changing elements I have never had any kind of brake down in the roll of towels or the cardboard, pretty amazing stuff. At $900 for the canister and fittings it pays for itself pretty quickly when oil changes cost over $200 every 15,000 miles. I change two paper towel rolls and add 2 gallons of oil every 20,000 miles.... about $30.00, replace the spin on filters and add 4 gallons of oil every 40,000 miles.
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Old 01-14-2014, 03:33 AM
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Of all the mods you could do to a 50 year old A4, seems like an oil filter is quite desirable. I'm a DIY guy, are there any opinions on if there is a better solution than the Indigo one? (where better = simpler, cheaper, more reliable or more effective, or any combination thereof).
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Old 01-14-2014, 04:10 AM
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this thread was useful
http://www.moyermarine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6700
found via google
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Old 01-14-2014, 10:54 AM
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See my earlier post. You can aquire everything you need to build a bypass filter with a manual valve. It will work. If you want the Indigo type system with an adjustable oil pressure relief valve that is automatic, I can't see how you could do it for less than they charge. There are better valves than what Indigo uses, but they aren't cheap.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HalcyonS View Post
Of all the mods you could do to a 50 year old A4, seems like an oil filter is quite desirable. I'm a DIY guy, are there any opinions on if there is a better solution than the Indigo one? (where better = simpler, cheaper, more reliable or more effective, or any combination thereof).
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Old 01-14-2014, 11:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HalcyonS View Post
Of all the mods you could do to a 50 year old A4, seems like an oil filter is quite desirable. I'm a DIY guy, are there any opinions on if there is a better solution than the Indigo one? (where better = simpler, cheaper, more reliable or more effective, or any combination thereof).
"Best" is full flow - we can't have that because of the configuration of our oil pumps (unless someone can figure something out that so far I haven't). Next best is independent recirculting loop with filter/relief valve and (for Cadillac owners) oil coolers. Next is the Indigo system. Last is the no filter option (for those who regard their A4 as expendable).
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Old 01-14-2014, 12:11 PM
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One danger is you won't be able to look at the oil and tell if it needs changing by eye. My oil is light honey colored brand new looking at the 50 hour mark
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Old 01-14-2014, 12:40 PM
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Not a bad price on the Indigo system. I actually have the same filter bracket on my motorcycle as the stock filter is gause on a tube and not that good.



My one question is the PRV and if one could be had for less? The bracket itself is only $20 or so.

Also, why not make one of the trans cover bolts a Banjo fitting and not worry about drilling and tapping a new hole?
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Old 01-14-2014, 01:30 PM
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You CAN do all that. I am not sure how easy it is to make your own valve. You can just use a normal valve and wire the handle in place after you set it. I did that for years and it worked fine. I got the Indigo system when I got my new engine and was going all-out pimping it up
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Old 01-14-2014, 03:29 PM
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Wonder if this would work as a regulator. Looks sharp and has the propper range.

http://bit.ly/1iPxLg2

After digging about the indigo kit is looking better and better.
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