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  #1   IP: 71.174.51.6
Old 05-11-2013, 08:37 PM
LastLeg LastLeg is offline
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Looking for Exhaust Advice

Please see the picture of my exhaust, as you can see I have a high temperature radiator hose attached directly to the manifold. I believe this is inadequate and will overheat after 60 minutes or so. I placed this there temporarily while I worked on the engine.

Although I have a threaded connection on the manifold side I am limited to attaching a hose since I do not have threads on the pipe side.

Any recommendations? Thanks for your help.
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  #2   IP: 173.166.26.241
Old 05-11-2013, 08:48 PM
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That looks like one of the old time copper with jacket style systems. They were wonderful but yours is broken and probably beyond repair unless there is enough metal left to braze a new connection to the system and the flange. You might have to design a new system from black iron pipe with a riser. That hose will be melted in about ten minutes.
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Old 05-13-2013, 12:55 AM
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You are going to need threads on the pipe side to accept black or galv. pipe for this section. Can you tap new threads into the pipe side?
There are threads somewhere here where people have re-built this hot section of the exhaust explain what standard size piping you can get at home depot etc. just for this purpose.
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Old 05-13-2013, 09:34 AM
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Perhaps you could braze a flange to the pipe section? Then the new intermediate piece would have a flange on both ends.
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Old 05-13-2013, 07:01 PM
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If you can get the wet, jacket section out, you can get a coupling brazed to it. Then work back to the engine with pipe. That assumes that it is in good enough shape.

If it is shot, then you will be making a new exhaust with pipe, and adding a water lift, as far as I can see.
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Old 05-13-2013, 08:44 PM
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If the water jacketed section is intact, determined by a modest pressure test on the jacket portion, I think you could salvage the system with something like this:
http://www.amazon.com/Lawson-Industr...sim_sbs_auto_1
You did not indicate how it was connected originally, just the temporary rig. I bet it was something similar.

I would definitely add an antisiphon loop between the manifold water outlet and the waterjacket inlet.
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Old 05-16-2013, 04:27 PM
LastLeg LastLeg is offline
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Thanks for the responses, I pulled out the old manifold and found that it is made of copper. At this point since the flange on the manifold is rotted and I am unable to remove it, I will change the entire pipe with black pipe, I would create a riser that will go as high. I am confused with the current design. I see there is a water bypass also at the top. Should I conform to this design.
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Old 05-16-2013, 04:51 PM
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As you can see the flange (black steel) is almost completely broken off. I know very little about metal. Would it be possible to have someone weld a threaded black pipe coupling on this?
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Old 05-16-2013, 05:52 PM
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reference material

Hi

i recently re-did mine with galvanized bits from plumbing store, official marine wet exhaust hose, and Moyer's anti-siphon valve for water exhaust.

here is one reference that seemed thoughtful. also Moyer A4 manual has a few sketches of typical design.

http://www.goodoldboat.com/reader_se...ne_exhaust.php

sorry i cant help on how to get around the broken bit, but the above might be helpful for the rest.
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Old 05-16-2013, 06:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hanleyclifford View Post
That looks like one of the old time copper with jacket style systems. They were wonderful but yours is broken and probably beyond repair unless there is enough metal left to braze a new connection to the system and the flange. You might have to design a new system from black iron pipe with a riser. That hose will be melted in about ten minutes.
FWIW I would just go ahead and build a new one from black iron. Good for about 7 yrs minimum and won't take long to source and complete.
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Old 05-16-2013, 06:35 PM
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I agree with your input, I am going to piece together my own exhaust. In my prior configuration I noticed that the water hose exiting the manifold joined the exhaust pipe prior to the lift, based on what I see this should join after the lift.
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Old 05-16-2013, 09:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LastLeg View Post
I agree with your input, I am going to piece together my own exhaust. In my prior configuration I noticed that the water hose exiting the manifold joined the exhaust pipe prior to the lift, based on what I see this should join after the lift.
Before abandoning that copper system I would make every effort to save it. It looks to me that with care that broken threaded piece of iron can be gotten out of that tube. The copper jacketed system is far superior in performance to the water lift with riser hot section system. It is worth it to make the effort to save that system.
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Old 05-16-2013, 10:27 PM
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thanks for the response, but how can I remove that broken piece, should I just sledge it out. I know the back steel is somewhat brittle.
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Old 05-16-2013, 11:08 PM
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I'll probably be laughed at for this but ...

To remove the pipe remaining:
- clamp the piece securely and safely
- get hold of a Sawzall with a few new metal blades
- have at it while trying not to cut into the copper
- peel out a strip and pry out
- curl the rest in as you would an old cutless bearing
- remove

It probably won't be that easy though.

Good luck.
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Old 05-16-2013, 11:15 PM
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Well I have a Sawzall and plenty of new metal cutting blades. Not sure how effective they will be on the black pipe but will have at it since I really have nothing to lose. I do envision destroying the threaded section of the copper housing where the new pipe would screw in.

I was thinking that perhaps if I heat it with a torch and try to unscrew it with the pipe wrench it just might give although it appears to be really rusted in there.
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Old 05-16-2013, 11:24 PM
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Caleb has some really good ideas on this and I would just add that some Kroil or PB Blaster overnight might help. It's important that you realize what a treasure that system is and that it is worth some TLC. The big advantage of that system is that it does not require the engine to use precious exhaust pressure to drive water uphill. In fuel economy and power over long hauls this is a huge consideration. Right now I use a riser and waterlift system on my boat but if I had a chance to have what you have for your engine I would jump on it.
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Old 05-16-2013, 11:36 PM
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Thanks for the feedback, I would really like to salvage this piece, I am thinking that if I have a coupling brazed on the end as stated in this thread.

Then I would have to use two small pipes and a union. I will give this a shot tomorrow morning, on my way to a welder.
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Old 05-16-2013, 11:40 PM
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One of the 'vendors' I'm dependent upon for boat projects is my metals guy. When it comes to something like this I get him in the decision loop as early as possible. He tells me what can and cannot be done, the expected strength of each option and approximate cost.
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Old 05-17-2013, 12:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LastLeg View Post
Thanks for the feedback, I would really like to salvage this piece, I am thinking that if I have a coupling brazed on the end as stated in this thread.

Then I would have to use two small pipes and a union. I will give this a shot tomorrow morning, on my way to a welder.
If that unit were mine the first thing I would do is cut it off flush, carefully. Next I would run a hole saw into the iron and then by small increments increase the size of the hole saws until I could weaken the remaining steel/iron enough to start peeling the threads out. It would be tedious but the reward is enormous even if you have to special order some not- often-used hole saws. The thing is probably 1 1/4" NPT. Even if you have to spend a couple hundred bucks on tools it would be less than a complete new system.
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Old 05-17-2013, 03:47 AM
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standpipe

I just wanted to reinforce Hanley's view that you should prioritize saving your original setup. You'll notice that the piece that failed was not of the original design (I assume). The materials used to make your standpipe and mixer will likely outlast the use of the boat where as the black pipe reconstructions necessitate replacement on a regular basis.

Also, the design of the standpipe makes it virtually impossible to get water backing into the engine from the exhaust.
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Old 05-17-2013, 07:16 AM
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The reciprocating saw should easily cut through the iron pipe. I would do as previously suggested and insert the saw in the hole, slice the pipe in several places. You should be able to bend or break the sections this creates towards the center of the hole. If you are careful, you might not even mark the copper threads.

I have done this before and for me, the important thing is to adopt a zen like patience. If I try to hurry the job I always do something I regret.
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Old 05-17-2013, 10:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LastLeg View Post
I agree with your input, I am going to piece together my own exhaust. In my prior configuration I noticed that the water hose exiting the manifold joined the exhaust pipe prior to the lift, based on what I see this should join after the lift.
That is because this is a double-walled/jacketed system. The water enters the outer jacket space between the inner and outer walls, and flows down the length of the assembly, pre-cooling the exhaust without yet mixing with it. At the end of the run, there is an internal injection point where the water finally mixes with the exhaust. As Hanley pointed out, this is a much superior system and should be salvaged if at all possible.
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Old 05-17-2013, 12:11 PM
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Exhaust schematic

Here is the perfect opportunity to resurrect my fancy "MSpaint" drawing for clarification!

HERE
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Old 05-17-2013, 05:23 PM
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As suggest, I recommend cutting it off flush. Then make a cut or three, into the pipe. Then collapse it inward. You can use a vise, or clamp, or whatever.

You want to not heat it too much that could cause the copper to unbraze, and leak.

I can see that a welder or machine shop, could braze a coupling right to the pipe. Probably use a brass or bronze fitting.

That exhaust system is the best kind, and you should try to keep it.
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Old 05-18-2013, 08:39 AM
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Would it be easier to collapse it inward if you could grasp the part sticking out? If so you may not want to cut it off flush.
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