New Caretaker

[hcrisp]

Hello,
I am a new Bristol 27 owner. 1969 with original engine. This is my first post, my first A4 and my first gasoline inboard. In addition to reading as many posts as I could I have also read Don's manual and his postings concerning what steps I should take with starting an engine that has been idle for 5 years. I have visited the coil, the distributor, spark plugs and thermostat so far. Installed are: new plugs and wires and electronic ignition (Moyer store). Took the thermostat out, cleaned it and the housing. At this point of installing the thermostat (Holley, double action) I am wondering if a sealant is necessary to "grease' the new gasket. When I removed the housing there was a polysulfide type of material that gave me a little grief as it squished inside and baked the thermostat to the housing. Fun getting the thermostat out.
Any help you oldtimers can give me will be greatly appreciated. I truly look forward to the day when I am knowledgable enough give advice to newbies.
Howard Crisp
Traverse City, MI

[sastanley]

Hi Howard,

Welcome to the group.

If you can get the t-stat housing to seal with no goop, that is the path I would take. If you think that the mating surfaces are rough enough that it may leak, I use one of the Permatex styles, #1, #2 or #3 depending on the application. #3 for most (in a jar with a brush), & #2 is a little thicker in a tube. I think the #1 is designed to be more permanent..I used that when building a new hot section to seal the iron pipe threads. Any type of RTV/silicone based stuff probably won't keep sticking when the engine is hot. I used that stuff on my first go 'round and on subsequent have used Permatex..wear old clothes and maybe gloves...that stuff gets everywhere!

Good luck..you are already on the right track if you have the Moyer A4 manual, and have reviewed anything Don Moyer has said. Be sure to also check the FAQ's & tech tips at the Moyer homepage (not inside the forum).

With any luck, she'll fire up with a minimum of fuss!

[Mo]

clean your fuel system.

Welcome Howard,

You will need to pay meticulous attention to your fuel. A fuel tank sitting for 5 years is going to be dirty...there`s no way around that. I would suggest you clean the tank.

Removing the tank and cleaning it is probably the best way.
Change your water separator element or install one if one isn`t present.
Put an in-line filter just prior to the carb as well.
Might have to clean the carb as well.

Changing filters alone is not going to solve the problem of a filthy tank. Dirt in the fuel system is one cause of sudden shut down. The dirt gets stirred up when it`s rough and plugs the carb. This can happen when it`s rough and you will need that engine....I urge you not to overlook it.

[CalebD]

To echo what Mo said

This is what can happen to E10 (ethanol 10%) fuel if left for a long time in a tank.

[lat 64]

Welcome!
It seems you're giving a careful prep—great.
Lost dogs and old boats seem to find the right people to take care of them.

I'm with Mo, pop that carb off too and clean it up. I bet it's full of bad juju.

Maybe turn it over by hand, just so you know that it will.

Cheers,

Russ

[Laker]

When you put new fuel into your cleaned tank , do NOT use ethanol.

Be careful not to crank the engine for prolonged periods without a start - water in the head may result.

Check compression. Do not be surprised if you have a stuck valve or two after all that idle time , it is not the end of the world.

Change oil before starting , then again after a few hours of running. The first change after 5 yrs. down time will not be very thorough .

If you service the fuel system as stated , have compression , and have spark , the little bugger will start.

[hcrisp]

Thanks for the quick reply and good info, Shawn. Found out last night I may have a bigger problem when I couldn't hand crank the engine. I mean the crank would not budge. What would be the best case scenario?

[sastanley]

Howard, There could be some rusty cylinder walls locking it up. I would try some ATF or Marvel Mystery Oil in the spark plug holes and let it soak.

What is the condition of the oil in the crankcase?

You may have to pull the head & beat it free if it is 'really' stuck..folks like Dave Neptune will be along to help you out..he unfroze his engine 25+ years ago & it is running great.

There are two scenarios that I am aware of for a flooded engine:
1. Standing water in the boat (i.e., a partial sinking), & it gets in thru the dipstick hole or the little crankcase breather hole up behind the flywheel & in the oil pan, etc.

2. if the starter is cranked too long with the thru-hull open, the water pump still spins and floods the muffler and then it backfills up the exhaust stack and dumps into the cylinders via the exhaust valves. The waterlift style mufflers need the exhaust pressure of a running engine to expel the water out, so if the engine is cranked but won't fire, it fills up. The fix for this is if you can't get the motor running with 15 seconds or so of cranking, close the thru-hull so the water pump can't pull any water in, and then open it once it is running..short duration (seconds) dry runs don't seem to hurt the impellers, but flooding the engine is much mroe catastrophic.

If there is water in the crankcase mixed with the oil, the solution is several (3 or 4) oil changes to slowly remove the water with short runs in between to warm it up & mix it to help remove the water.

Let's wait & see on all that...we gotta break the engine loose first...it may involve removing the head..

[hcrisp]

The oil is clean, the color of a good brew.
Shawn, should I use the starter motor for a more powerful crank or will that break teeth? My boat is a Bristol 27 (weekender model). The thought of removing the head in the boat, with what little clearance there is under the cockpit sole is going to keep me awake at night.
Thanks again,
Howard

[sastanley]

Howard, I have not personally had to deal with a frozen motor, let's wait and see what folks like Dave Neptune have to say..

I have heard of some others remove the starter and work the engine loose with the flywheel teeth and a screwdriver, but I would think you'd have better leverage trying to rock it loose with the hand crank.

I am spoiled..I have a Catalina 30...we have great engine access, except for the front..I had to drill a hole in the boat for the handcrank to work.

[CalebD]

Head access

Not sure if the engine access is similar on your Bristol 27 but we recently managed to get the head off our engine in our Tartan 27. Not great access but do-able.

It is not a bad idea to start soaking the nuts on the head in something like PB Blaster now if you think you might have to take the head off at some point down the road. Also, a new set of head gaskets (it takes 2 to tango) would be good to have on hand ($36 a pair here at MMI).

Good luck breaking her loose.

[hcrisp]

I found (1) head gasket aboard when I bought the boat. After reading Don's words on head gaskets I thought it odd to find just (1). One of the first things I did on the engine was remove the spark plugs and squirt Marvel MO. I am going to do it again tonight and let it soak. I hope my aim is good. Hate to be putting MMO in the manifold instead of the cyls. I like your idea of starting now with the blaster.
Howard

[Mo]

So you want to try turning it over with the starter.

You can try the starter...it either goes or not. If you just hear that clunk you can click it a couple of times and see if the engine breaks loose...if it doesn't turn over at that point stop trying the starter.

PS: Shawn mentioned the screw driver on the teeth of the flywheel with the starter removed. That will give you more leverage than from the crank in the center of the flywheel....another thing you can try in there is a prys bar if you have access. You'd be amazed the amount torque you can assert on that fly wheel....back and forth, back and forth...if it moves a millimeter initially you are winning...it will come.

[Dave Neptune]

Easy does it

Howard, as Mo said you can work the flywheel after the starter is removed. I recomend a good penetrating "spray" oil for this as the spray will dispurse better around the valves, just pouring or trying to squirt oil in just coats where gravity takes the oil IE not up.
Be creful finding a big screwdrive or pry bar to use and bring along an assortment of wood blocks to protect the starter hole to pry against. And like Mo said back and forth. Once you have a bit of movement you may be able to spin with the crank, if not spin it with the starter and while the engine is spinning spray in a bit of oil through the plug holes. If it spins it will be time to get it to fire up. Keep the btteries charged!
Leave the water off until it starts for sure!!!!!
You may have a stuck valve or more and if you have two good cylinders it should start and run very rough~no biggie. A bit of running will in many cases get the stuck valve(s) shook loose. If it runs let it run for a bit if it will (remember to turn the water back on) until it has a bit of temp or possibly smooths out. If it is running on just 2 or 3 cylinders then you can begin the process of getting the valve broke free.
It took me quite a few hours to break mine loose 26 years ago and she still purrs like a kitten and has good power.

Dave Neptune

[hcrisp]

I'm a very lucky guy to have found this forum. You guys are the best in that you not only have the expertise to figure out anything that comes along but just your existence provides a huge confidence boost to begin a project.
The A4 on my boat is now turning freely with the hand crank and I'll bet you she will start when I get all the components back together.
I will let you know. You were right - A4's never die!
Howard