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Old 04-06-2010, 09:50 AM
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Water Jacket Side Plate questions

I am a new owner of 1976 Tartan 30c that came with an Atomic 4. We launched this past Friday and had two great sails over the weekend and the engine seemed to work great. On our return that Saturday, we noticed we had water near the engine and found a hole that had opened up in the Water Jacket Side Plate.

Of note, I know next to nothing about engines but figured that the purchase of this boat would afford me the opportunity to learn and the learning has begun already! I was able to pick up the side plate, t fitting, gasket and new hose at a local store. I removed the alternator and had enough room to work on removing the side plate. After reading the threads in here about problems with the bolts, I said a prayer and dove in. No problems with the bolts and everything came off easily. Inside the plate was gray murky water with some silt in the bottom of the engine. We scooped out what we could and cleaned the area where the plate was to be attached with a wire brush. Was that sufficient cleaning or should we have done something more involved? We reattached the plate and new hoses and water flow seemed to work well.

After testing this and coming back and reading some more, I realized we did not put a distributor cap on the inside of the T fitting. I get the impression we are OK for the short term, but will we need to install this sooner rather than later? If there was one on the original plate, it was not there when we removed it. Another question I have is on installing the bolts. I did not use any kind of compound or threading agent when I installed these and only half of them had washers. Should I get washers for all of them and should I apply something to the bolts before putting them in the plate? Lastly, I noticed that the T fitting on the plate sold here assembled looks to have been bedded somehow. Should I apply something to the T Fitting as well?

In an unrelated problem, I don't seem to be getting in readings on my Water Temperature gauge. That will be next project and Ill start a new thread on that one.
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Old 04-06-2010, 01:11 PM
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Nitefly,
Welcome to the forum..sounds like you've been doing your research.

I would be interested to learn where you found a side plate locally...that is pretty cool in and of itself!

I don't think the diverter cap is critical, however, while I had mine apart I installed a new one since there was nothing on mine either. Apparently some of them likely rotted away years ago. A lot of the customized kits available at Moyer can be found as pieces locally...I do not purchase every part for my motor from Moyer...however, I've found that often their kits save me a lot of time and engineering aggravation..sometimes the kit is just easier..in this case, the cap is just a brass cap. When in place, it shoots water out the end and off to about 4 o'clock to spray the aft cylinders.

I gooped up everything when I did my sideplate. The brass "T" is threaded so in theory it shouldn't leak, but you never know..the plate alloy & "T" may heat up at different rates and leak later - Also, since my block has various levels of corrosion, I liberally gooped one side of the gasket to help avoid leaks...if yours isn't leaking you might be OK.

I also used the better bolts & brass washers here at Moyer, but again, if you know what you are looking for, you could probably find them at a decent local hardware store. I figure from a cost perspective it is about break even, especially when getting lots of stuff at once, and again, I don't have to do the research of thinking about length, size, threads, blah blah.

Your mileage may vary, and each project may warrant a different approach

I was brand new to my motor 18 months ago..man is it an experience!
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Old 04-06-2010, 01:28 PM
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sastanley,

I know this is pretty basic... but what did you use to goop it up?
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Old 04-06-2010, 01:44 PM
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Nitefly-
You're obviously living right since your bolts all came off without issue!

As far as the "diverter cap", you're ok short-term but I'd certainly add it to "The List".
No further than half-way down.
And, I'm sure you know what I mean by "The List".

Just a few questions to add to Shawn's comments...
Fresh water, coolant or salt water going thru your cooling passages?
(That answer would decide for me how high to put the diverter on my list)
I assume you used a gasket when you replaced the plate?
I second Shawn's opinion that you should eventually get some good bolts and washers on that plate before long
or you'll likely take a trip down the path both Rigsy and I have traversed. Avoid it!!
I used Permatex Aviation sealer on the gasket to avoid any possible leaking.
You can also put a very small dab on the bolts near the head if you want, but not really necessary.
I did clean the threaded holes and used some White Lithium Grease on the bolts for future lubrication, but again, YMMV here so TUTY...

(Off-topic)
Shawn, so sorry about your chainplates!!
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Last edited by roadnsky; 04-08-2010 at 10:31 AM.
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Old 04-06-2010, 02:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roadnsky View Post
Nitefly-
You're obviously living right since your bolts all came off without issue!

As far as the "diverter cap", you're ok short-term but I'd certainly add it to "The List".
No further than half-way down.
And, I'm sure you know what I mean by "The List".

Just a few questions to add to Shawn's comments...
Fresh water, coolant or salt water going thru your cooling passages?
(That answer would decide for me how high to put the diverter on my list)
I assume you used a gasket when you replaced the plate?
I second Shawn's opinion that you should eventually get some good brass bolts and washers on that plate before long
or you'll likely take a trip down the path both Rigsy and I have traversed. Avoid it!!
I used Permatex Aviation sealer on the gasket to avoid any possible leaking.
You can also put a very small dab on the bolts near the head if you want, but not really necessary.
I did clean the threaded holes and used some White Lithium Grease on the bolts for future lubrication, but again, YMMV here so TUTY...

(Off-topic)
Shawn, so sorry about your chainplates!!
roadnsky,

It is a raw water system and we are in salt water. And yes, I did put a new gasket behind the plate. I'll pick up some of the Permatex and grease. Can I get those at any auto parts store? I'll order the brass bolts and washers along with the distributor cap from here.
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Old 04-06-2010, 02:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NiteFly View Post
It is a raw water system and we are in salt water. And yes, I did put a new gasket behind the plate. I'll pick up some of the Permatex and grease. Can I get those at any auto parts store? I'll order the brass bolts and washers along with the distributor cap from here.
Oops, I missed where you said you got the gasket in your original post.
The Permatex isn't available at all shops, although I did find mine at an "Older" style auto parts store near our marina.
Ask for it by "Aviation Brand" or also as "Permatex #3".
Others on this site have had good success with #2 on their bolt and screw threads.
If you have trouble finding it, MMI sells it here too.

A couple other things you might want to add to THE LIST while you're doing the cooling system,
• Check the Water Pump and Impeller
• Acid or Vinegar Flush
• High Pressure Flush (This one takes some time and patience)
• Check the Thermostat and housing
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Last edited by roadnsky; 04-06-2010 at 02:36 PM.
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Old 04-06-2010, 02:58 PM
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Nitefly - Congratulations on your Tartan 30. I recently purchased one as well. What a great boat!

I would be curious to know if your exhaust system is the original or if it has been modified. The original had a standpipe type system, but most refits seem to have a water lift muffler system of some sort.

Qben Oliver
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Old 04-06-2010, 03:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Qben View Post
Nitefly - Congratulations on your Tartan 30. I recently purchased one as well. What a great boat!

I would be curious to know if your exhaust system is the original or if it has been modified. The original had a standpipe type system, but most refits seem to have a water lift muffler system of some sort.

Qben Oliver
Thanks QBen and congrats on yours. Yes, I am really enjoying the boat. I don't know much about sailing yet, but I was really surprised at how close into the wind we could sail.

I believe this boat has a water lift muffler. It looks old though and checking that out is on the list too (the lower part!).
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Old 04-06-2010, 03:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sastanley View Post
Nitefly,

I would be interested to learn where you found a side plate locally...that is pretty cool in and of itself!
I forgot to address this: There is a marine store in Galesville MD that carries at least some A4 parts: Hartge Yacht Yard. Albeit, they seem to be higher priced than Moyer.
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Old 04-06-2010, 04:34 PM
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Should I get washers for all of them and should I apply something to the bolts before putting them in the plate? To add to the advice above. I think the bolts and any bolt that will be removed in the future should get a coat of anti-seize before installation. Dan S/V Marian Claire
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Old 04-06-2010, 05:28 PM
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I am just about to reinstall our water jacket side plate, so I've been reviewing things. In fact, I just ordered the bolts and washers from Ken today.

1. I believe Don uses Permatex #3 on the bolt threads to prevent leakage along the bolts, but I have another note somewhere indicating that he recommends generous Never Seize. Seems to me that Permatex would both seal and prevent seizing.
2. MMI sells brass washers, but I believe the bolts are #8 and steel, not brass?
3. I plan to put the messy Permatex #3 on both sides of the gasket. We discussed how to use Permatex in a thread here a couple of months ago.

My electronic notes that I scavenged from various places say this:
"(MM-002) Water jacket side plate gasket - coat both sides of gasket, as well as plate and block surfaces generously to prevent leakage. Threads of the 8 bolts should also be coated, making sure to reuse brass flat washers. Lock washers allow leakage through their slots." I think I got that bit from a Don Moyer note somewhere here called "INSTRUCTIONS FOR INSTALLING GASKETS".
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Old 04-06-2010, 05:42 PM
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NiteFly,

We have a marina down here, Zahniser's in Solomons that stocks some A-4 parts...I've only ever bought gaskets and water pump parts from them though.

Most other things I yapped about were addressed. The #3 Permatex is liquidy..it has an applicator brush. the #2 is in a tube & not as liquidy..I used it on my hot exhaust since it said it was good for hi-temps. The goop I used was likely high temp red RTV, since I can see it still on the plate. If you have a choice, I'd use the Permatex & on both sides..you don't want it leaking. It seems the Moyer folks recommend goop on both sides of low maintenance gaskets (not removed frequently) and on one side of high-maintenance items (t-stat housing, etc.) Incidentally, I found #3 at a local Napa....#2 is usually available at Wal-mart.
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"Holiday" - '89 Alura 35 #109
"Twice Around" - '77 C-30, #511 with original A-4 & MMI manifold - SOLD! (no longer a two boat owner!!)
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Old 04-07-2010, 09:19 AM
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Thanks for the replies everyone!
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