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  #51   IP: 166.137.252.21
Old 10-03-2019, 09:17 PM
Kevinstone Kevinstone is offline
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Palmer also

I also have a Palmer p-60. My wife and I have been cruising and living aboard for over 10 years. This forum has been a lot of help. Also try old marine engines.com the Palmer section. You can contact me if you want. I can help you get ahold of a manual if you still need one.
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  #52   IP: 98.189.79.99
Old 10-07-2019, 01:24 PM
AFisch AFisch is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevinstone View Post
I also have a Palmer p-60. My wife and I have been cruising and living aboard for over 10 years. This forum has been a lot of help. Also try old marine engines.com the Palmer section. You can contact me if you want. I can help you get ahold of a manual if you still need one.
Thanks for dropping in Kevin Stone...I'd love to connect more just to hear about living aboard...we plan to pull the kids out of school in about 5 years to start cruising. We will be looking at a bigger boat for that though, so my Palmer days may be done when that happens...but for now, connecting would be great. Feel free to email me at adamfischer_@hotmail.com if you are inclined.

Adam
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  #53   IP: 98.189.79.99
Old 10-08-2019, 07:26 PM
AFisch AFisch is offline
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Hey All....so I have been trying to look up what coil the Palmer takes...funny thing is I just replaced the coil on my VW bus too...will any 12 V coil of the same size work?
Adam
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  #54   IP: 137.103.82.227
Old 10-08-2019, 09:02 PM
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No - not any coil will work (for long). Assuming the Palmer has no ballast resistor, use the coil sold by Moyer and save yourself some trouble
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  #55   IP: 107.131.11.88
Old 10-21-2019, 12:18 AM
AFisch AFisch is offline
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Ok, Update.

I finally made it down without the kids and was able to make some progress (although no-results).

I replaced the Coil...engine fired right up super strong, but didn't last long. New coil didn't solve issue.

Drained the Fuel Filter/Water separator, replaced the other small fuel filter and then took off fuel pump, and cleaned brass fittings. Drained out whatever fuel was in the pump, and eventually some blackish liquid came out. Re-hooked everything up, engaged the pump to re-prime the pump and fuel filter/water separator, fired her up and she ran like a top for 20-25 min in neutral...decided to put in gear and gradually increased throttle quiet a bit...let run in forward (tied up tight in slip) for 5-10 minutes...no problems. Put back into neutral and ran for another 10-15min or so...then I noticed a slight drop in the rpms...and then she shut down again. Tried to fire up again and would not start. Waiting a few minutes, fired up again, started right up...but didn't last long.

My initial thought is the fuel pump being the culprit...either has gunk of some kind...or is maybe just failing to pump after a while.

Side note, I did feel the coil after all of this and it did seem warm almost hot...did the brand new coil just get fried too?, or is this normal?? I drove my '73 bus home (after giving up for the evening) decided to feel the coil of the bus after driving home to see how it compared...and it was also relatively warm, so thinking this could be normal and maybe eliminate coil as the problem.

Almost ready to call mercy and get someone down here to look at it. But have trouble wanting to give in...
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  #56   IP: 137.103.82.227
Old 10-21-2019, 08:49 AM
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What kind of coil did you use?
Did you try the ether test?
Did you measure fuel pressure?
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  #57   IP: 97.93.70.7
Old 10-21-2019, 12:02 PM
Dave Neptune Dave Neptune is online now
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Adam, a 4 cylinder 12V coil will work just fine. Do you know what type of distributor you have? A pic may help.

If you suspect the pump due to the black ooze get another one and before mounting and playing install a fuel pressure gage between the polishing filter and the carb. I would suggest fresh fuel lines when doing this, often black ooze is ethanol breaking down old style fuel line.

Also a coil from a 4 cyl V-dub would work just fine. Do check the points and integrity of the cap. Also give the C-adv a twist and lube if necessary. And yes a coil will heat up!

When testing if she ever shuts down check for spark~~BE PREPARED~~immediately. No spark its ign and probably the coil.
You will already know about fuel delivery as you now have a pressure gage you checked while starting and/or running.

When the engine dies how does it die, stumbling to a stop or just quits like you shut her down?

You may want to start a fresh thread for your issues.

Dave Neptune
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  #58   IP: 98.189.79.99
Old 10-21-2019, 01:02 PM
AFisch AFisch is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Neptune View Post
Adam, a 4 cylinder 12V coil will work just fine. Do you know what type of distributor you have? A pic may help.

If you suspect the pump due to the black ooze get another one and before mounting and playing install a fuel pressure gage between the polishing filter and the carb. I would suggest fresh fuel lines when doing this, often black ooze is ethanol breaking down old style fuel line.

Also a coil from a 4 cyl V-dub would work just fine. Do check the points and integrity of the cap. Also give the C-adv a twist and lube if necessary. And yes a coil will heat up!

When testing if she ever shuts down check for spark~~BE PREPARED~~immediately. No spark its ign and probably the coil.
You will already know about fuel delivery as you now have a pressure gage you checked while starting and/or running.

When the engine dies how does it die, stumbling to a stop or just quits like you shut her down?

You may want to start a fresh thread for your issues.

Dave Neptune
I am spacing on the brand of the coil I got...it is not the one from the V-Dub...got it from Orange Engine who is a marine parts supplier here in Dana Point...and I went with the American made brand that was a little more expensive. I am 95% sure I do not have an external resistor, so went with a coil that does not require one.

When it dies...it is like when I shut it down..no sputtering before hand at all....just a slight drop in rpms moments before it dies.

I will get a new fuel pump and I'll get a pressure gauge too. Most of the fuel lines are brand new, but now that I think of it, the fuel line coming right off the fuel tank I have not replaced yet.

Given your description Dave Neptune, I don't think the coil is the issue now, but I will still try the spark test (which I have never done before).

Now thinking about it (through the night)...when this problem initially happened at the end of summer...I had drained the fuel/water separator and put on new filters. Once I did that, the engine ran for a long time before cutting out...45 min+. Since then, it has been 5 min max that it has run.

Yesterday, I drained the fuel/water separator and the fuel pump and replaced the small filter...and she ran for 45min+ before shutting down. Now after letting it sit for a while, more like 5min max again.

So, both times when I have drained the fuel/water separator and replaced filters, I get a good strong running engine for almost an hour. Does this tell anyone anything?

I should probably start a new thread, but this one has so much handy info for me and allows me to easily go back to check previous responses...
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  #59   IP: 98.189.79.99
Old 10-21-2019, 01:04 PM
AFisch AFisch is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joe_db View Post
What kind of coil did you use?
Did you try the ether test?
Did you measure fuel pressure?
Can't recall brand off the top of my head, but got it from my local marine supply shop, Orange Engine in Dana Point...and went with the more expensive American made brand.

I did not do the ether test

I will definitely get a pressure gauge next go around. From what I am gathering here, this should be installed right before the carburator correct?
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  #60   IP: 97.93.70.7
Old 10-21-2019, 01:45 PM
Dave Neptune Dave Neptune is online now
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Adam, sounds like a contaminated tank sorta. With fresh filters she runs for a while then dies. Repeat(?). That's pretty classic for a tank problem.

Perhaps you should replace the filters, install a gage and run it while paying attn. to the P-gage. I would also set up a temporary tank to feed the new stuff. If she runs well and does not die, bingo it's the tank.

If it dies and there is no spark it may be ign related. Note the ign should be checked as soon as she dies so be PREPARED to check it.

Dave Neptune
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  #61   IP: 98.189.79.99
Old 10-21-2019, 01:55 PM
AFisch AFisch is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Neptune View Post
Adam, sounds like a contaminated tank sorta. With fresh filters she runs for a while then dies. Repeat(?). That's pretty classic for a tank problem.

Perhaps you should replace the filters, install a gage and run it while paying attn. to the P-gage. I would also set up a temporary tank to feed the new stuff. If she runs well and does not die, bingo it's the tank.

If it dies and there is no spark it may be ign related. Note the ign should be checked as soon as she dies so be PREPARED to check it.

Dave Neptune
Thanks Dave...the fuel tank sounds like a pain in the a**...hopefully that is not the issue, but I fear it might be. I'll get the gauge installed and monitor, as well as attempt the spark test.

If it is the fuel tank...hopefully its not too difficult...I imagine I wil just have to disconnect /remove anything in the way and slide it right out.

I'll report back after I get a chance to head down again.

Thanks,
Adam
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  #62   IP: 137.103.82.227
Old 10-21-2019, 02:59 PM
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These are not remotely safe for marine use, but can be useful for diagnostics.
https://www.amazon.com/Dorman-HELP-5...1680652&sr=8-5
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Old 10-21-2019, 06:53 PM
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  #63   IP: 70.185.132.167
Old 10-21-2019, 06:53 PM
JOHN COOKSON JOHN COOKSON is offline
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Divide And Conquer

Quote:
Originally Posted by AFisch View Post
Thanks Dave...the fuel tank sounds like a pain in the a**...hopefully that is not the issue, but I fear it might be.
If it is the fuel tank...
Thanks,
Adam
Get the engine running correctly off an auxiliary fuel tank with clean fuel. This will stop the speculation "is the problem with the engine's part of the fuel system or is the problem with the with the boat's part of the fuel system"?
A fuel pressure gauge is almost a diagnostic must in this case.

TRUE GRIT

Last edited by JOHN COOKSON; 10-22-2019 at 01:36 AM.
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  #64   IP: 98.189.79.99
Old 10-21-2019, 07:13 PM
AFisch AFisch is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JOHN COOKSON View Post
Get the engine correctly off an auxiliary fuel tank with clean fuel. This will stop the speculation "is the problem with the engine's part of the fuel system or is the problem with the with the boat's part of the fuel system"?
A fuel pressure gauge is almost diagnostic must in this case.

TRUE GRIT
I have a nice clean 5 Gallon Fuel Jerry Can I'll use for this next weekend. And I'll get myself a pressure gauge as well.

Thanks
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Old 10-28-2019, 01:05 PM
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Progress Update...

So I made it down to the boat with 1 kid...and got him to help me replace all fuel lines. Went to Marine supply and they were out of pressure gauges, but I did get new fuel lines, new in-line filter and finally did the Jerry Can test.

(side note which I think is relevant later: removing fuel line to fuel pump, gas drained from pump).

Hooked everything up to clean fuel in clean Jerry can and low and behold, problem still happened, although ran a little longer this time (I think due to fuel pump having been empty but then filling up). At least this means my fuel tank should be good and of no concern.

This all leads me to believe it is simply my fuel pump. I know there is an internal screen which likely has debris in it built up over time. The bottom is designed to come off so you can clean the screen, but it is stuck on there really good. I'll have to take pump off and maybe let it sit with some WD-40 for a while. Worst case (hopefully) is simply replace the fuel pump...So I am pretty pleased with narrowing down the issue.

If I knew more in the first place, I probably could have solved this the same day it happened, but I am learning as I go here (which is half the fun). I almost gave up and called a mechanic, but glad I didn't.

Thanks for all the help here, I learned a lot more about the other components and how to work around troubleshooting from all of you.

I'll get another update when I either clean out the fuel pump screen, or replace altogether.
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  #66   IP: 24.152.132.140
Old 10-28-2019, 04:04 PM
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Have you contacted David Grosse at Boat City Yachts? He's kind of a Palmer specialist.

http://boatcityyachts.com/palmer%206...e%20repair.htm
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Old 10-28-2019, 07:32 PM
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Try an electric pump
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  #68   IP: 98.189.79.99
Old 10-28-2019, 07:34 PM
AFisch AFisch is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ndutton View Post
Have you contacted David Grosse at Boat City Yachts? He's kind of a Palmer specialist.

http://boatcityyachts.com/palmer%206...e%20repair.htm
I have not...but looking him up, he is nice and close...might become my new best friend!

Thanks
Adam
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  #69   IP: 70.185.132.167
Old 10-28-2019, 07:42 PM
JOHN COOKSON JOHN COOKSON is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AFisch;118997
If I knew more in the first place, I probably could have solved this the same day it happened, but I am learning as I go here (which is half the fun). I [U
almost gave up and called a mechanic,[/U] but glad I didn't.
.
I've forgotten what the problem is. Shutdowns?
A new thread would be a good idea.

Has the ignition system been eliminated as the cause of the shutdowns? See posts# 56,57,60.
Immediately after a shutdown, before the coil has change to cool, pull the big wire out of the center of the coil and hold it near ground (the engine) and check for a blue white spark while cranking the engine. A remote start switch (or a kid to turn the key) is handy for this test.
This is an easy test.

BTW when you posted on this forum you sort of did "call a mechanic". Lots of them in fact.

TRUE GRIT
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Old 10-28-2019, 07:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joe_db View Post
Try an electric pump
The one I have is electric...and I'll replace with another electric
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Old 10-28-2019, 07:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JOHN COOKSON View Post
I've forgotten what the problem is. Shutdowns?
A new thread would be a good idea.

Has the ignition system been eliminated as the cause of the shutdowns? See posts# 56,57,60.
Immediately after a shutdown, before the coil has change to cool, pull the big wire out of the center of the coil and hold it near ground (the engine) and check for a blue white spark while cranking the engine. A remote start switch (or a kid to turn the key) is handy for this test.
This is an easy test.

BTW when you posted on this forum you sort of did "call a mechanic". Lots of them in fact.

TRUE GRIT
I have not checked for Spark, but did just replace the coil...I'll still do the spark test, but still pretty sure it is the fuel pump. But I'll test spark before buying a new one.

And yes...I suppose you are right, I put out the call to all the mechanics on this forum and learning a hell of a lot more than I would have if I called someone to come and fix it for me.

Thank you again to everyone here!
Adam
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Old 10-28-2019, 08:32 PM
JOHN COOKSON JOHN COOKSON is offline
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There is always a possibility of something haywire in the boat's part of the ignition system. The spark test is good summary test of the ignition system and so easy to do. I did reread the posts in this thread and the test has been suggested several times by your mechanics.

That having been said since you are working on the fuel system maybe keep working on the fuel side until you are sure it is correct and then go from there? Your choice. Your boat.

TRUE GRIT

Edit: If there is a OPSS in the fuel pump electrical circuit bypass it or short across it. I would do this before replacing the pump. If you don't know what the OPSS is put up a post.

Last edited by JOHN COOKSON; 10-28-2019 at 08:59 PM.
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  #73   IP: 107.131.11.88
Old 11-16-2019, 10:20 PM
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Ok...been travelling for work so haven't made it down to the boat until today (saturday the 16th)...

So, removed fuel pump and cleaned out the screen...but decided to buy a new fuel pump anyways to help eliminate that from my problems and I don't mind having a spare on board...low and behold...same issues.

Move on to spark test as soon as engine shuts down, got my kid to turn the key...and we have a strong blue spark.

After giving up and calling a trusted mechanic...he was good enough to encourage me to keep handling this on my own. Went to part store to get a can of starter fluid (I know, should have done this first as suggested, but learning as I go, so realize the mistakes I have made). decided to buy a new condenser for the distributor anyways..no big deal, $8.

Fired it up, like always, fired up strong but still shut down after a minute or so...after figuring out where the intake is for the carb, I ended up spraying some starter fluid in the next round when it was starting to die and that would keep it going when it wanted to die. disconnected the fuel line going into carb and made sure there was good flow coming out and good clean gas...

So I have now narrowed the problem down to the carburetor....the question is now...what is wrong with it...would it be just the float? would it require a full rebuild? can I get a new one for a palmer? How do I even remove the carb from the engine in the first place??

The mechanic I spoke to mentioned that most carburetor problems are problematic all the time...when it sits for a while, it runs for a while...so this makes me think just the float.

Any suggestions here would be greatly appreciated and this time I will take your word step by step...

Thank you all for your help so far!
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Old 11-17-2019, 12:57 AM
JOHN COOKSON JOHN COOKSON is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AFisch;11920
Fired it up, like always, fired up strong but still [U
shut down after a minute or[/U] so...after figuring out where the intake is for the carb, I ended up spraying some starter fluid in the next round when it was starting to die and that would keep it going when it wanted to die. disconnected the fuel line going into carb and made sure there was good flow coming out and good clean gas...
Thank you all for your help so far!
You seem to be running on one carburetor bowl full of fuel. When the carburetor bowl empties the engine shuts down.
How did you check the fuel pump operation when the engine wasn't running? If you bypassed the OPSS somehow and the fuel pump operated normally you've made the diagnosis - the OPSS has a problem.

TRUE GRIT
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  #75   IP: 137.103.82.227
Old 11-18-2019, 08:10 AM
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Do you have a fuel pressure gauge rigged yet? I have had issues I would *never* have found without one.
You either have a pump that somehow quits pumping or something in the carb that keeps clogging up.
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