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  #101   IP: 24.152.132.140
Old 05-06-2019, 12:19 PM
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My experience is a small diameter vent hose provides enough restriction that a metering valve is not necessary. One less part. I forget the size of my vent hose, something like 5/16" I think.

The tricky part is finding a place to discharge the spittle that is open to air. Usually a galley sink is the answer. Joe, your drawing has me concerned. The arrangement of discharging the spittle to a below the waterline thru hull works when the engine is running but will not allow air into the loop freely when a siphon tries to start (vacuum dynamic). That's the reason I mentioned the end of the vent hose needing an open air connection. Mine connects to the galley sink drain at a point above the waterline.

edit
Disclaimer: maybe "thru-hull" on the drawing doesn't mean what I thought it did.
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Last edited by ndutton; 05-06-2019 at 03:39 PM.
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  #102   IP: 137.200.32.6
Old 05-06-2019, 04:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ndutton View Post
My experience is a small diameter vent hose provides enough restriction that a metering valve is not necessary. One less part. I forget the size of my vent hose, something like 5/16" I think.

The tricky part is finding a place to discharge the spittle that is open to air. Usually a galley sink is the answer. Joe, your drawing has me concerned. The arrangement of discharging the spittle to a below the waterline thru hull works when the engine is running but will not allow air into the loop freely when a siphon tries to start (vacuum dynamic). That's the reason I mentioned the end of the vent hose needing an open air connection. Mine connects to the galley sink drain at a point above the waterline.

edit
Disclaimer: maybe "thru-hull" on the drawing doesn't mean what I thought it did.
I didn't mean to imply it would be underwater! That would be
If I hook that up it will be next to the bilge pump outlets.
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  #103   IP: 192.186.122.174
Old 05-07-2019, 09:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wisakedjack View Post
RobH2 I am very happy to hear that you solved your issue as well. I would not be surprised that syphone valve could cause it. Especially given that it was at play in my case as well. May be the valve was stuck and your blowing through it fixed it. Hopefully it wont happen again, but as least you will be prepared. Happy sailing season!
For those plastic/nylon vented loops, one can buy replacement duckbills to be sure they are working.

Please remember though that these vented loops are near their upper limit for temps. ex Marelon-"TEMPERATURE RANGE... has an ... operating temperature range from -40º to +176º Fahrenheit". That upper limit would cause me endless worry when these engines are operating 160-180F. If you use plastic who knows its safe upper limit. And I don't know if that includes the rubber duckbill used in them.

Greg
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Last edited by GregH; 05-07-2019 at 09:27 AM.
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  #104   IP: 173.67.45.252
Old 05-07-2019, 01:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joe_db View Post
Like so:
You adjust the valve for a little water flow from the vent line, you want about 90% of the water going through the exhaust. This is kind of like the pee hose on an outboard except the main reason the outboard has one is so you know it is pumping water.
Could that "pee hose" join back into the exhaust back where it exits the boat do you think? I'd make sure to use metal parts and high temp hose. That prevents a new hole in the boat or having to always leave the galley drain thru-hull open.

You might even be able to pierce the exhaust hose just before it exits the boat, insert the "pee" hose and let the end of that pee hose extend all the way out till it hits air behind the boat. Then, seal that little hose hole with some industrial high-temp sealant and wrap it expertly. Better yet, get a shop to solder a brass tube into a "t-fitting" and attach the other half of the 'pee' hose there. See my drawing... Anyway, just thinking out loud. I'm an Industrial Designer. It's my job to come up with wacky ideas...lol...
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  #105   IP: 137.200.32.6
Old 05-07-2019, 05:58 PM
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That seems unnecessarily complex to me.
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  #106   IP: 50.242.183.42
Old 05-07-2019, 06:03 PM
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Better than punching a new hole or forgetting to open a thruhull. Really not more complex than the manifold water injector.

Just curious, what do you find complex about it?
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Old 05-07-2019, 06:06 PM
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I was just going to dig up some hose and a small thru hull from my shed instead of fabricating a way to re-inject the water into the exhaust system. I would put the thru-hull next to the three I already have for bilge pumps. There is no forgetting issue, none of them have valves on them.
YMMV
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  #108   IP: 50.242.183.42
Old 05-07-2019, 06:09 PM
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Understood, no problem...

What some might call a complex solution I might be inclined to call an elegant solution. It's all about perspective, right?
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  #109   IP: 222.165.249.162
Old 05-07-2019, 08:06 PM
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Hi Rob-
One possible "issue" I see is that your internal water hose could cause enough of a blockage to be a bigger problem than the "solution".

I like your drawing tho...
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  #110   IP: 173.67.45.252
Old 05-07-2019, 09:38 PM
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Sure Jerry, I realize that. The drawing is just conceptual. I think that it could be designed to have a negligable impact on the exhaust. Like any mechanical or hydraulic system, test, refine, test.
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  #111   IP: 137.103.82.194
Old 05-07-2019, 10:27 PM
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A friend of mine did something similar. He plumbed his sink and HEAD outlets into the exhaust. The visuals alone are
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  #112   IP: 36.66.214.10
Old 05-07-2019, 10:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joe_db View Post
...The visuals alone are
Not to mention the "burning" smell as well.
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  #113   IP: 24.152.132.140
Old 05-07-2019, 10:32 PM
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The critical dynamic is you want the vent to allow air into the water hose without any encumbrance when the hose has a vacuum. Everything else is managing water. For the sake of the engine's performance, no good can come from adding exhaust flow restriction.
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Last edited by ndutton; 05-07-2019 at 10:34 PM.
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  #114   IP: 173.67.45.252
Old 05-16-2019, 11:26 PM
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I just wanted to wrap up and say that my engine is running very well. Thanks again for all of the outstanding support from you knowledgable guys.

I've run the engine now for about 5 hours and the oil is as clear as if I just poured it in. I guess that comes from having changed it about 15 times during my odyssey. You should see my "oil bill"...lol... I've never had completely clean oil in the engine as you well know, it's near impossible to get it all out during a change. I think that every other year or so I might just do a triple change just to get it all good and clean.

Again, THANK YOU to all...
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  #115   IP: 207.118.20.35
Old 07-27-2019, 04:23 AM
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watch water pump seals after installing a new impeller

I am one of those who got milky oil in the crankcase from blown seals on the flange pump. I was afraid I needed a new head gasket, but the compression test was good. I thought maybe water was coming into the engine from the copper water jacket exhaust having corroded internally, but I was informed that would put water into the cylinders, a hydro-lock would result, and the engine would not run. I could see no water on the plugs, and the engine ran ok. I thought there was internal leaking in the block and/or manifold, but when I pressurized them with my lung power I heard no air escape, and the pressure remained while my eyes bulged out. I didn't believe it was possible for enough water to push past both the water and oil seals on the pump, and past the drain holes of the pump, to contaminate the crankcase oil. But somehow it did. The problem began after replacing a 2 year old impeller which looked ok, if a little bent. The engine ran hotter than before, and was not running well until warmed up, but it wasn't until I did the 50-hour oil change that I discovered milky oil. When I removed the pump, the oil seal looked like it was covered in vanilla milk shake. I had the pump rebuild kit from Moyer ready to go, and replaced seals, shaft, bearings, impeller, and O-ring. The shaft was badly scored at the failed seals, and the bearing at the water side of the pump was hard to turn. I had done the same repair four years ago, also after a new impeller had been installed. That time, water did not get into the crankcase, but the engine overheated when a lot of water came out the drain holes.The pump is 9 years old and has had two rebuilds. I do use the engine a lot. After 3 oil changes all is well.
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  #116   IP: 173.67.45.252
Old 07-27-2019, 10:39 AM
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Thanks for posting that. Yea, I still don't know where my water got in. I replaced so many things that I had no way to tell anymore. Fortunately, I haven't had the problem since. My strong suspicion is that the plastic anti-siphon valve clogged on my exhast water injection loop and I sucked water into the manifold from the exhaust.

But, since I replaced so many things, I now know that it's unlikely to happen again from any other failure.
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  #117   IP: 97.93.70.7
Old 07-27-2019, 10:58 AM
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After my second "plastic vented loop" the second time I went manual. I literally mounted a 1/8" ball valve at the vent and it worked as well as I worked it for a few years. When I replumbed I went to a bronze unit mounted higher in the boat.

This was early in my A-4 experience and I used it for about 5~6 years.. Forgot once on the back side of Catalina. I sucked the water off the bottom and was on my way. I did change the oil when I got back to port and it was already clear.

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