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  #26   IP: 174.58.82.173
Old 08-06-2014, 09:14 AM
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I wonder where the specs for the aftermarket EI came from. I am thinking that the sensor may be made too small. Were the specs determined by measuring distributor shaft? Was it worn?

Distributors wear down. some have even said that they wear so bad as to make them useless.
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  #27   IP: 24.152.131.153
Old 08-06-2014, 09:25 AM
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RC,
I'd expect normal cam wear would make for a looser fit on the EI collar and as stated earlier I'd also expect measurements at the peaks of the cam to vary widely due to wear. The flats should not be subject to any wear at their centers assuming a history of properly adjusted points dwell.

Shawn,
Was your tight collar experience with a single collar or more than one? Looking forward to your measurement to compare, thanks. Also thanks for raising the rotor variance possibility. It's as likely as anything else I suppose.

What about the Hot Spark guys (are there any?)? Any collar fitment problems?
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  #28   IP: 72.71.243.112
Old 08-06-2014, 09:33 AM
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Neil

The reason I don't want take my mag module off to measure shaft
is that I broke one intially without the benefit of knowing that the
module sometimes needed to be heated. I paid for a second one.
Don't want to risk a third one.

Regards
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  #29   IP: 206.125.176.3
Old 08-06-2014, 09:39 AM
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Question Ha...more questions than answers

Neil, I'd have to pull out my spare EI and see if I purposely broke that collar too. A couple years ago when I was chasing down the ignition/running/no start troubles, I didn't know many of the intricacies of the things we are discussing now, like the rotor keying to the shaft, collar height, etc., and I simply can't remember what I did & probably the collar being out of alignment and/or the rotor not seating correctly could have been part of my issues until I figured them out. I think I decided since the EI unit itself may fail, but the mechanical collar should be reusable, I probably did not break the 'backup' magnetic collar. The fit is smooth enough that I can put it in place with two thumbs, but I have to use a screwdriver to pry it back up for fine-tune positioning (which is just off the plate to avoid rubbing).

Something else that may be a contributing factor..distributor shaft length above the EI/points plate? Isn't there a little retaining on the distributor shaft (under the timing springs?) that holds it in place? How does it work? Are they all in the same spot? Do we all have the same amount of shaft sticking out above the EI/points plate? - maybe another measurement point to consider.
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Last edited by sastanley; 08-06-2014 at 09:45 AM.
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  #30   IP: 24.152.131.153
Old 08-06-2014, 09:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtJ View Post
The reason I don't want take my mag module off to measure shaft is that I broke one initially without the benefit of knowing that the module sometimes needed to be heated. I paid for a second one. Don't want to risk a third one.
Roger that but as with much of this discussion it raises another question. May I assume you preheated the replacement collar before installation so we can't be certain if it fit your distributor cam fresh out of the box, right?

Look, I'm sure from the reports there's a variance somewhere. It could be the distributor cam, the plastic collars themselves or as Shawn suggested the rotors and/or distributor shaft height or maybe even a combination. It's my nature to want to find out for sure and with the forum members' help I think we can.

edit:
Here's another question. Can the EI mounting plate be removed for access to the advance mechanism with the EI collar in place? If not, how can you lubricate the mechanism if you're reluctant to remove the collar? I'll have to look at that the next time I'm at the boat.
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Last edited by ndutton; 08-06-2014 at 09:57 AM.
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  #31   IP: 174.58.82.173
Old 08-06-2014, 09:58 AM
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the sensor would have to fit tight, in order for it to stay put. It sounds like the sensor is not tolerant of much variance in the cam size. I suppose ever sensor of this type would be an interference fit.

After hearing of failures, I am suspecting that the sensor is not up to the job.
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  #32   IP: 206.125.176.3
Old 08-06-2014, 10:00 AM
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Thumbs down No :(

Neil..no..there is no opening in the EI plate to allow removal without pulling the collar as well. It is simply a hole in the plate to slide over the shaft.
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  #33   IP: 72.71.243.112
Old 08-06-2014, 10:00 AM
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I heated the second one after having broke a first one that was not heated.
Neither would fit on the shaft if not heated. I also have a module on my
working engine on the boat which went on easily.
On the spare engine Cleaning and lubricating the shaft did not help. It was simply a mismatch
in diameters on the spare engine.

Since the "normal old fashioned rotor" never went down that far on the shaft it might be possible that sometimes the
factory didn't worry about finishing the deeper portion of the shaft as closely. It certainly couldn't be due to wear since that would make the diameter smaller, not bigger

I cleaned up the shaft -corrosion and crud build up were not the issue.

Last edited by ArtJ; 08-06-2014 at 10:04 AM.
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  #34   IP: 97.73.50.119
Old 08-06-2014, 10:02 AM
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Delco Distributor shaft tolerances

Art,
Happily, other than the problem you had several years ago which required warming your magnetic ring during installation, we have received very few other reports of magnetic rings breaking as your first one did. None the less, we are moving on your suggestion to modify our instructions to include the use of a hair dryer to warm the magnetic ring in cases where more than gentle tapping is required to seat the ring to a proper depth. This addition should alleviate what few problems may otherwise occur in the future.

In a related matter, I need to correct an apparent misunderstanding I conveyed to you in one of our conversations several years to the affect that we had discovered a problem with factory tolerances in the dimensions of Delco distributor shafts.

Distributor cams do wear over time, so it's understandable that a magnetic ring could fit more snugly when installed on a very low time distributor shaft, and more loosely on a high time engine. However, we have never identified these variations as an indication that any Delco distributor shafts were somehow out of tolerance. In fact, where differences do exist in the fit of magnetic rings, I would be more inclined to suspect that the manufacturing tolerances in the magnetic rings would be a more likely cause factor than the distributor rotor. But again, your suggested addition to our instructions should head off any issues with magnetic ring installation in the future. Don

Last edited by Administrator; 08-06-2014 at 11:03 AM.
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  #35   IP: 72.71.243.112
Old 08-06-2014, 10:22 AM
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Don

That ignitor module was shipped to me in February of this year 2014.
I was billed for a replacement as I was told it was a shaft problem.
Order 14-25641 The replacement was order 16400. I was billed for both
the original and the replacement

Best Regards
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  #36   IP: 128.177.72.199
Old 08-06-2014, 10:49 AM
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Hmmm.

I think Don told me that the magnetic rings for Prestolite, Delco and Pertronix distributors are all different from one another.

We really don't have good numbers on how often the breakage problem has happened in the field, but Don did tell me that in the hundreds of Prestolite and Delco distributors MMI has rebuilt, they've never had one crack.

Bill
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  #37   IP: 72.71.243.112
Old 08-06-2014, 10:52 AM
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Bill there have been other instances:

Shawn had one crack

Both the original I bought from Don cracked and the replacement
would have cracked if it was not heated.


Best Regards

BTW The one I previously installed on my other- in the boat engine ( this was a spare engine went on readily.

There may have been a tolerance issue with the batch both of the February modules. I still have both of them
the cracked one and the heated and installed one. I would be happy to supply the cracked one for tolerance
checking

Last edited by ArtJ; 08-06-2014 at 11:03 AM.
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  #38   IP: 199.173.226.235
Old 08-06-2014, 11:04 AM
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Any reason Moyer is not shipping the newer version of the Ignitor?
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  #39   IP: 174.94.17.50
Old 08-06-2014, 07:07 PM
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I have Prestolite distributor...just sayin'?

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