Return to the home page...

Go Back   Moyer Marine Atomic 4 Community - Home of the Afourians > Discussion Topics > Electrical

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1   IP: 199.68.38.6
Old 04-21-2015, 09:15 AM
RUSSELL RUSSELL is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Erie, Pennsylvania
Posts: 88
Thanks: 1
Thanked 13 Times in 7 Posts
Wire Labelling

I am getting materials together to work on wiring. I would like to label each wire at a connection; e.g., "To Ign Key", "To Ign Coil +".

My initial thought was to print these items on paper, wrap around the wire, and cover with clear heat shrink tube.

Does anyone know of a waterproof, durable label that one could just apply like tape?

Has someone been down this road before?

Thanks!!
Reply With Quote
  #2   IP: 108.45.83.193
Old 04-21-2015, 09:44 AM
edwardc's Avatar
edwardc edwardc is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Laurel, MD
Posts: 2,509
Thanks: 153
Thanked 595 Times in 388 Posts
At work, we used labels that were printed on heat shrink tubing. They come mounted on a "carrier" that can be put through an ink jet printer. There are others that fit the Dymo or Brother label printers. In either case you can just skip the printer and hand label them with a fine Sharpie. The writing is done at the larger size, and then shrinks to a size that is quite readable, but much smaller than you can hand print.

Here's a couple of links:

http://www.cableorganizer.com/heat-shrink-labels/
http://www.te.com/catalog/labels-ide.../menu/en/23686
http://www.amazon.com/DYMO-RhinoPRO-.../dp/B000AN9I6O
__________________
@(^.^)@ Ed
1977 Pearson P-323 "Dolce Vita"
with rebuilt Atomic-4

Reply With Quote
  #3   IP: 32.211.28.40
Old 04-21-2015, 09:55 AM
Al Schober's Avatar
Al Schober Al Schober is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Uncasville, CT
Posts: 2,002
Thanks: 16
Thanked 578 Times in 405 Posts
I like using the labels made by my Brother label printer - the 1/4" size works well. Using shrink tubing to hold them on is best, but you have to put on the label before crimping on the terminal! Anything relying on adhesive has to be considered temporary.
Reply With Quote
  #4   IP: 198.11.8.218
Old 04-21-2015, 10:09 AM
BunnyPlanet169's Avatar
BunnyPlanet169 BunnyPlanet169 is offline
Afourian MVP, Professor Emeritus
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: York, ME
Posts: 952
Thanks: 25
Thanked 94 Times in 67 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by edwardc View Post
At work, we used labels that were printed on heat shrink tubing. They come mounted on a "carrier" that can be put through an ink jet printer. There are others that fit the Dymo or Brother label printers. In either case you can just skip the printer and hand label them with a fine Sharpie. The writing is done at the larger size, and then shrinks to a size that is quite readable, but much smaller than you can hand print.

Here's a couple of links:

http://www.cableorganizer.com/heat-shrink-labels/
http://www.te.com/catalog/labels-ide.../menu/en/23686
http://www.amazon.com/DYMO-RhinoPRO-.../dp/B000AN9I6O
+1. This works well.
__________________
Jeff


S/V Bunny Planet
1971 Bristol 29 #169
Reply With Quote
  #5   IP: 107.0.6.242
Old 04-21-2015, 10:46 AM
hanleyclifford's Avatar
hanleyclifford hanleyclifford is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 6,978
Thanks: 172
Thanked 280 Times in 226 Posts
Talking

Also try to follow color coding as close as is practical. http://www.defender.com/pdf/abyc-wire-color-chart.pdf
Reply With Quote
  #6   IP: 70.186.213.67
Old 04-21-2015, 11:17 AM
Tim's Avatar
Tim Tim is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Gloucester, VA
Posts: 173
Thanks: 45
Thanked 51 Times in 35 Posts
I am going through the same thing with my rebuild. The ideal situation is to use the correct color wires. However, I have had no luck finding marine grade yellow wire with a red stripe or 8 gauge orange wire. Any ideas on where to find the wire?
__________________
Pearson 10M
Gloucester, Va
Reply With Quote
  #7   IP: 107.0.6.242
Old 04-21-2015, 11:30 AM
hanleyclifford's Avatar
hanleyclifford hanleyclifford is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 6,978
Thanks: 172
Thanked 280 Times in 226 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim View Post
I am going through the same thing with my rebuild. The ideal situation is to use the correct color wires. However, I have had no luck finding marine grade yellow wire with a red stripe or 8 gauge orange wire. Any ideas on where to find the wire?
Just call Defender; they will get whatever you require. http://www.defender.com/category.jsp...011&id=2290012
Reply With Quote
  #8   IP: 198.11.8.218
Old 04-21-2015, 11:43 AM
BunnyPlanet169's Avatar
BunnyPlanet169 BunnyPlanet169 is offline
Afourian MVP, Professor Emeritus
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: York, ME
Posts: 952
Thanks: 25
Thanked 94 Times in 67 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by hanleyclifford View Post
Also try to follow color coding as close as is practical. http://www.defender.com/pdf/abyc-wire-color-chart.pdf
Practical (or practicable) being the operative word. In bulk (>500 feet) you can have a wire house custom stripe and/or mark wire for you.

In our world, a rational approach coupled with a schematic is better than most installations. If you label both ends you're ahead of the pack.
__________________
Jeff


S/V Bunny Planet
1971 Bristol 29 #169
Reply With Quote
  #9   IP: 161.213.49.150
Old 04-21-2015, 12:09 PM
JOHN COOKSON JOHN COOKSON is offline
Afourian MVP, Professor Emeritus
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,500
Thanks: 54
Thanked 855 Times in 629 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by hanleyclifford View Post
Also try to follow color coding as close as is practical. http://www.defender.com/pdf/abyc-wire-color-chart.pdf
+1 on this.

I color coded my wiring to the original scheme when I rewired. It was a big help keeping all the various wires straight. It helped me follow my original plan to have one solid wire from point A->B with no connectors in between. All end conncetors are soldered and heat shrunk. As you have probably guessed by now I was damm sick and tired of chasing wiring problems so I made sure I wasn't going to have them anymore. I don't.

My engine is under the cockpit. There was a giant coil of a wiring harness attached to the underside of the cockpit above the engine. I had way more than 2X the length of the various colored wires that I needed. After the rewire project I still have 1/2 of a bread bag of marine grade wires left over.

TRUE GRIT
Reply With Quote
  #10   IP: 107.72.162.76
Old 04-21-2015, 12:46 PM
The Garbone The Garbone is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Daytona Beach, FL
Posts: 299
Thanks: 15
Thanked 14 Times in 13 Posts
I have started to order my wire from genuinedealz.com

Cheesey sounding name but a great source for marine grade wire etc.
The have a nice selection. Also bought some fire retardant loom to make my harness an tinned battery connectors.
__________________
Gary
78' Catalina 30 #1179
www.svknotaclew.wordpress.com
Reply With Quote
  #11   IP: 73.14.111.83
Old 04-21-2015, 03:22 PM
Launchpad McQ's Avatar
Launchpad McQ Launchpad McQ is offline
Aforian MVP
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 101
Thanks: 13
Thanked 86 Times in 38 Posts
Russel,

I've been using a Brother P-touch label maker to print the labels, and then covering them with clear heat-shrink with decent results. The challenge has been applying sufficient heat to make the heat shrink react without burning the underlying label and blurring the print. I've been using an Ancor heat gun. It's a delicate operation but I'm patient. On some labels, I've burned 3 or 4 before getting it right. I don't think most people would feel this is a worthy use of time but I'm anal. If you decide to go this route, here's what I learned:

1. After printing, trim down the label with scissors lengthwise and widthwise to the edge of the lettering. It will help the label sit "flat" on the wire (especially small gauge wire) and reduce the label binding under the heat shrink.
2. Buy the largest diameter heat shrink that will shrink to fit. You'll "burn" less underlying labels
3. Buy more heat shrink and printer label tape than you think you'll need. You'll screw up a bunch.
4. The heat shrink is critical. With out it the labels stick to the wire for about 28 seconds.

I get back to the boat tomorrow and I'll post some pics of my progress. In the meantime, here's a couple teasers...
What I started with, courtesy of the PO
Name:  img_2692.jpg
Views: 598
Size:  168.5 KB
First attempt. Hadn't learned #1 yet
Name:  img_2877.jpg
Views: 622
Size:  140.9 KB
P.S. Like Garbone, I've been sourcing most of my electrical wire, heat shrink, terminals etc from Genuinedealz on eBay. So far I've been pleased with them other than the fact that they're frequently sold out of certain things.
__________________
Jonathan
1979 Catalina 30 #1497
An old Airline Pilot proverb: "If we don't help each other nobody else will."
Reply With Quote
  #12   IP: 199.68.38.6
Old 04-21-2015, 03:48 PM
RUSSELL RUSSELL is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Erie, Pennsylvania
Posts: 88
Thanks: 1
Thanked 13 Times in 7 Posts
I have found a great availability of colors for certain gauges and less for other gauges. E.g., for 8 AWG the only colors I have seen are red, black, yellow, green, and white.

Thanks for all of the suggestions.

The "Series Jumper" picture is exactly what I have pictured in my mind.

I don't think this will help that much in doing the work, but will be a biog help if I must return to later.

I have CRS disease (Can't Remember Squat).
Reply With Quote
  #13   IP: 71.53.72.231
Old 04-21-2015, 05:18 PM
toddster toddster is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 490
Thanks: 10
Thanked 39 Times in 34 Posts
Dang, I wish I'd known about the heat shrink labels years ago. Turns out they don't work in my label maker, but it would have been worth buying a new one...

Clear heat shrink is just another thing that can't be had out here in BFE. Can't stop and wait two weeks to order-in every little thing. For better or worse, when wiring the boat, instead of buying many rolls of color-coded wires, I went with big spools of safety-cable. Which does tend to make the wire-races kind of crowded.

Anyway, the method that I learned, somewhere lost in the mists of time, was to cut off a small scrap of the empty (stripped-off) cable sheath, write the label on that with sharpie, and slip it on over the hot wire. It doesn't shrink to fit, but it stays on. And it's free. And there's always a pile of it right there at your feet.

Doesn't Moyer sell an engine wiring harness with the correct colors? I should tackle that end of the system one of these days...

Last edited by toddster; 04-21-2015 at 05:22 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #14   IP: 198.11.8.218
Old 04-21-2015, 05:49 PM
BunnyPlanet169's Avatar
BunnyPlanet169 BunnyPlanet169 is offline
Afourian MVP, Professor Emeritus
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: York, ME
Posts: 952
Thanks: 25
Thanked 94 Times in 67 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by toddster View Post
Dang, I wish I'd known about the heat shrink labels years ago. Turns out they don't work in my label maker, but it would have been worth buying a new one...

Clear heat shrink is just another thing that can't be had out here in BFE. Can't stop and wait two weeks to order-in every little thing. For better or worse, when wiring the boat, instead of buying many rolls of color-coded wires, I went with big spools of safety-cable. Which does tend to make the wire-races kind of crowded.

Anyway, the method that I learned, somewhere lost in the mists of time, was to cut off a small scrap of the empty (stripped-off) cable sheath, write the label on that with sharpie, and slip it on over the hot wire. It doesn't shrink to fit, but it stays on. And it's free. And there's always a pile of it right there at your feet.

Doesn't Moyer sell an engine wiring harness with the correct colors? I should tackle that end of the system one of these days...
They do.

http://www.moyermarine.com/cgi-bin/s...ey=OVEL_01_394
__________________
Jeff


S/V Bunny Planet
1971 Bristol 29 #169
Reply With Quote
  #15   IP: 67.180.147.64
Old 04-23-2015, 01:28 PM
Launchpad McQ's Avatar
Launchpad McQ Launchpad McQ is offline
Aforian MVP
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 101
Thanks: 13
Thanked 86 Times in 38 Posts
Not the best pics but you can get the idea. You can see in the pic I haven't "sleeved" the 'To Battery' label yet.
Attached Images
  
__________________
Jonathan
1979 Catalina 30 #1497
An old Airline Pilot proverb: "If we don't help each other nobody else will."
Reply With Quote
  #16   IP: 76.189.186.57
Old 04-23-2015, 08:40 PM
RUSSELL RUSSELL is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Erie, Pennsylvania
Posts: 88
Thanks: 1
Thanked 13 Times in 7 Posts
Yes, exactly what I envision. Thanks!
Reply With Quote
  #17   IP: 199.68.38.6
Old 05-11-2015, 11:05 AM
RUSSELL RUSSELL is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Erie, Pennsylvania
Posts: 88
Thanks: 1
Thanked 13 Times in 7 Posts
Well, I worked on my re-wiring this weekend.

Wiring stuff from genuinedealz.com worked great - good price, no shipping charges.


My efforts with the large cables (i.e., battery cables) sucked. I could not get the connectors to crimp, and when I tried to solder I made a mess – melted insulation, cold joint, etc. I was trying to do this in the boat – that was a mistake. I am going to cut those ends off and try again, but at the workbench. I welcome any suggestions or hints on how to do these well.

Maybe I should just order them already made up?

I have a crimping tool and the smaller connectors - 10 AWG or 12 AWG – worked well.

I like my heat shrink and labeling. I am using a heat gun. You have to let the heat gun warm up, but I like controlling the temperature. First, I use a black heat shrink. Then I trim my little label from the sheet I printed; e.g., “TO: BILG 1”. I then use the clear heat shrink and slide over the little label placed on the black heat shrink and cook down with the heat gun. Very easy to read, like the examples above. I think I will like a lot when done - and certainly an improvement from what I started with (nothing was labeled at all).

Finally a question regarding wire loom - I have three bundles of wires (will end up with four bundles when the EWS is installed) going to the control panel in the cockpit. I wrapped with electrical tape to make them easy to handle. My intention is to encase the wire bundles in split wire loom to protect the wire bundles from scuffing, etc. Since there will never be any sun shining on these wire bundles, can't I just use the split loom commonly found at Wal-Mart or any auto parts store? Is there any difference in quality of this stuff?

Thanks!!!
Reply With Quote
  #18   IP: 107.0.6.242
Old 05-11-2015, 11:10 AM
hanleyclifford's Avatar
hanleyclifford hanleyclifford is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 6,978
Thanks: 172
Thanked 280 Times in 226 Posts
Talking

For battery cable work you need a Nicro Press tool. I bought one for rigging repair but have found it's best use is making up battery cables.
Reply With Quote
  #19   IP: 12.216.194.200
Old 05-11-2015, 11:15 AM
smosher smosher is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 489
Thanks: 0
Thanked 35 Times in 34 Posts
cable markers

I use tywrap cable markers. Cheap and easy to find
Reply With Quote
  #20   IP: 198.11.8.218
Old 05-11-2015, 11:31 AM
BunnyPlanet169's Avatar
BunnyPlanet169 BunnyPlanet169 is offline
Afourian MVP, Professor Emeritus
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: York, ME
Posts: 952
Thanks: 25
Thanked 94 Times in 67 Posts
Russel - I used the 'hammer' crimping tool but used a small bench vise to do the squeezing, and crimped twice per connection. That was on 2AWG, I wouldn't do more. It worked, but it's not optimal by far.

If you can borrow or rent a real crimping tool, it's WAY better - I cannot overstate this - ask at your local electrical store if they do rentals. The die is square, and gives a great crimp on all sides. Professional tool, professional results.

Do a pull test to check your work. Make up an end or two, fix it to something, and pull on the other end. You can pull out 18 or 16AWG crimps without too much effort (20 or 30 pounds). You should not be able to pull out a 2AWG battery lug (>150 pounds). If a crimp pulls apart in your hands, the die is not set correctly. Loose connections = higher resistance and eventual failure.

I hate electrical tape. Hate it. Sticky mess when (not if) you have to do any work. Use the split loom. Use tie wraps.
__________________
Jeff


S/V Bunny Planet
1971 Bristol 29 #169
Reply With Quote
  #21   IP: 161.213.49.150
Old 05-11-2015, 01:02 PM
JOHN COOKSON JOHN COOKSON is offline
Afourian MVP, Professor Emeritus
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,500
Thanks: 54
Thanked 855 Times in 629 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by BunnyPlanet169 View Post
I hate electrical tape. Hate it. Sticky mess when (not if) you have to do any work. .
+1 Ditch the tape. Ues cable ties.

If you have trouble soldering do this: Dip the wire in soldering paste and heat it up. Do it again. Tin the wire. Use a piece of sandpaper to make the connector shiny and bright. For a battery connector a piece of sandpaper or emery cloth on a dowel (such as a pencil) will work. Crimp the wire to the connector for a good mechanical fit. Do not depend on the solder to hold the wire to the connector. Hold the connector in a vice or vice grip pliers. This will act as a heat sink.
Use a concentrated heat source ie a torch. Heat the connection evenly before applying the solder. You'll get the feel for it.
Use 60:40 high tin low melting temp solder. It's worth the extra money many times over.

TRUE GRIT
Reply With Quote
  #22   IP: 199.68.38.6
Old 05-11-2015, 02:46 PM
RUSSELL RUSSELL is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Erie, Pennsylvania
Posts: 88
Thanks: 1
Thanked 13 Times in 7 Posts
Thanks, guys.

The electrical tape is solely for ease of handling and sliding around when installing. Periodic tie-wraps will hold together when placed in final position and installed; will be encased in split loom. I have a supply of the stainless steel "loops" from McMaster-Carr - the kind where a fastener goes through each end and it loops around whatever you are trying to hold and is encased in a rubber cushion material. These "loops" will affix the wire bundles to the boat.

Does it make any difference what split loom I use? Automotive OK?

I got a crimping tool for up to 10 AWG size connectors. It worked very well; nice, even squeeze on each side, very tight. I could not pull apart using just my hands.

I'll be practicing soldering again coming up. Thanks for the tips.
Reply With Quote
  #23   IP: 108.45.83.193
Old 05-11-2015, 09:17 PM
edwardc's Avatar
edwardc edwardc is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Laurel, MD
Posts: 2,509
Thanks: 153
Thanked 595 Times in 388 Posts
For smaller wires, up to #12, I use a $15 ratcheting hand crimping tool:

http://www.harborfreight.com/ratchet...ool-97420.html

I tried one of the hammer/vise crimping tools for #2 battery cable, but was unhappy with the crimps. Couldn't reliably make a good crimp with it.

I ended up buying a hydraulic hand crimp tool with a whole bunch of dies from Harbor Freight when it went on sale:

http://www.harborfreight.com/hydraul...ool-66150.html

This thing is easy to use, and makes crimps that are strong enough to hang from! I've been very happy with it.
__________________
@(^.^)@ Ed
1977 Pearson P-323 "Dolce Vita"
with rebuilt Atomic-4

Reply With Quote
  #24   IP: 76.179.157.47
Old 05-11-2015, 09:26 PM
BunnyPlanet169's Avatar
BunnyPlanet169 BunnyPlanet169 is offline
Afourian MVP, Professor Emeritus
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: York, ME
Posts: 952
Thanks: 25
Thanked 94 Times in 67 Posts
Ed: I wish I had found that hydraulic tool.... The AMP crimpers I was looking at were 4 times as much and I suffered through with the hammer version....

Russell: IMHO, forget soldering - the 2AWG stuff won't come out nearly as well as $60 spent on a good crimper. You'll be way happier.
__________________
Jeff


S/V Bunny Planet
1971 Bristol 29 #169
Reply With Quote
  #25   IP: 107.0.6.150
Old 05-11-2015, 11:25 PM
hanleyclifford's Avatar
hanleyclifford hanleyclifford is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 6,978
Thanks: 172
Thanked 280 Times in 226 Posts
Talking

Check this out: http://www.e-rigging.com/hand-swagers
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Motorola Alternator - what is the yellow wire for??? Elizabeth_B29 Electrical 15 03-24-2014 07:36 PM
Fuse location in IGN to Coil + wire kwalters Ignition System 13 09-14-2009 05:01 AM
Wire from alternator to battery? riphonda Electrical 14 04-04-2009 02:29 PM
Does the ABYC Standard Wire Exist? HOTFLASH Electrical 2 09-27-2007 01:13 PM
alternator wire wlevin Electrical 2 09-11-2007 09:47 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:14 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.


Universal® is a registered trademark of Westerbeke Corporation

Copyright © 2004-2024 Moyer Marine Inc.

All Rights Reserved