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  #51   IP: 24.152.131.153
Old 04-17-2014, 08:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hanleyclifford View Post
The "real" solution is probably a major re-wire of the electrical system; meanwhile I think Jack just wants to use the boat.
. . . and the real problem will persist, perhaps even degrade. I've never seen one improve on its own. It's been going on a while too. This thread alone is six months old and the problem existed before that.

In time it will finally degrade to a point that . . . . aw, never mind.
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Old 05-01-2014, 11:11 AM
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Red face R Terminal

Ok, as I said I narrowed it down to:

Hot wired: starts fine. No hot wire, a lot of cranking.

As before; new batteries, coil, plugs. I have magnetic ignition. Rewired "purple" wire with about 7' of #14. Battery wires to and from were replaced a while back and all are in good shape and inspected. I get a good strong spark from the coil.

The fact that the boat starts fine while hotwired eliminates them. I did notice quite a bit of voltage drop-off while cranking - (starter??). Late model engine.

I looked at the solenoid yesterday and it's all late-model, but other than the "S" term with the white wire, and the larger Battery term, there was another term, sort of in-between in size that had some sort of rubber piece on it. Hard to see, exactly as I was using a mirror, access is poor. I'm thinking this is an external ground to the starter? But I didn't think the later models had those. I'm a little confused that there is an "R" terminal...

...and sure, I want to fix it right...

So I think what I'm down to is that the ignition goes through the instrument panel, jumps from gauge to gauge with #12 wire with the white wire on the first one (or last one). I think I should replace the white wire, and maybe also run a jumper around the gauges, as well as leaving them wired.

I mean there's not much left, and with the hot-wire acid test that sort of narrows it down, right??

Jack
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  #53   IP: 161.213.49.150
Old 05-01-2014, 11:54 AM
JOHN COOKSON JOHN COOKSON is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackConnick View Post
Ok, as I said I narrowed it down to:
Hot wired: starts fine. No hot wire, a lot of cranking.
As before; new batteries, coil, plugs. I have magnetic ignition. Rewired "purple" wire with about 7' of #14. Battery wires to and from were replaced a while back and all are in good shape and inspected. I get a good strong spark from the coil.
The fact that the boat starts fine while hotwired eliminates them. I did notice quite a bit of voltage drop-off while cranking - (starter??). Late model engine.
I looked at the solenoid yesterday and it's all late-model, but other than the "S" term with the white wire, and the larger Battery term, there was another term, sort of in-between in size that had some sort of rubber piece on it. Hard to see, exactly as I was using a mirror, access is poor. I'm thinking this is an external ground to the starter? But I didn't think the later models had those. I'm a little confused that there is an "R" terminal...
...and sure, I want to fix it right...
So I think what I'm down to is that the ignition goes through the instrument panel, jumps from gauge to gauge with #12 wire with the white wire on the first one (or last one). I think I should replace the white wire, and maybe also run a jumper around the gauges, as well as leaving them wired.
I mean there's not much left, and with the hot-wire acid test that sort of narrows it down, right??
Jack
I got so sick and tired of this kind of monkey business on my boat that I finally did a global rewiring of the engine, gauges, ignition, and everything else associated. All end connectors are crimped, soldered, and heat shrunk. Got rid of all the trailer type plugs. It's one soild wire from A->B except for the in line fuses I added.
Problem(s) solved.

TRUE GRIT
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  #54   IP: 216.81.94.72
Old 05-01-2014, 12:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JOHN COOKSON View Post
I got so sick and tired of this kind of monkey business on my boat that I finally did a global rewiring of the engine, gauges, ignition, and everything else associated. All end connectors are crimped, soldered, and heat shrunk. Got rid of all the trailer type plugs. It's one soild wire from A->B except for the in line fuses I added.
Problem(s) solved.

TRUE GRIT
Good for you John; I'm still Monkeying around with mine
Started my A4 up for the first time this spring and measured 13.x volts at battery-- gotta recheck my alternator wiring and see what's amiss. --Normally measures 14.x on mine.
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Old 05-01-2014, 12:58 PM
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More discoussion with Don

He seems to think if it's running fine after starting that the starter is drawing too many amps while cranking and is making a weak circuit bad. Sound like I need to pull and check the starter... groan.

Jack
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  #56   IP: 216.81.94.72
Old 05-01-2014, 01:20 PM
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With all the checks you have done so far and replacing with new batteries, checking the starter sounds reasonable. I pulled mine and took it to a local shop for bench testing last fall. My problem was bad batteries, which you have eliminated from your list of suspects.

While the starter was off I gave the exposed area of the engine behind the starter a good knock down with a wire brush and degreaser and touched up the paint. Good opportunity.
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  #57   IP: 24.152.131.153
Old 05-01-2014, 03:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackConnick View Post
Ok, as I said I narrowed it down to:
Hot wired: starts fine. No hot wire, a lot of cranking.
Please describe exactly what you mean by "hot wired." Does it mean:

1. #14 wire from a battery post to the coil + terminal?

or

2. Jumper from the battery post to the solenoid "S" terminal to activate starter?
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Old 05-02-2014, 02:33 AM
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Neil;

Jumped from large battery connection of solenoid to + of coil. So essentially from battery to coil.

Jack
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Old 05-02-2014, 08:26 AM
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I don't understand the logic

Quote:
Hot wired: starts fine. No hot wire, a lot of cranking.
The only change with the hot wire in place is bypassing the ignition circuitry to and from the ignition switch and the switch itself. Same starter, same solenoid, same starter wiring, same starter load, cranks fine with or without the hot wire.

So the starter/solenoid/starter wiring is now suspect? I don't see why, it's working fine and the test with the hot wire proves it.

Based solely on the successful hot wire test I'd replace the ignition wiring, the supply from the battery to the ignition switch (red), the load from the switch to the coil + (purple) and the switch itself. Make it as first class as you can. Red supply should be #10 minimum, I'd bump the purple load up to #12, tinned wire all around with terminals crimped, soldered and shrink tubed. The switch should be marine grade, if a combination start and ignition keyswitch, 30 amp rating would be nice.
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Last edited by ndutton; 05-03-2014 at 08:26 AM.
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  #60   IP: 161.213.49.150
Old 05-02-2014, 12:15 PM
JOHN COOKSON JOHN COOKSON is offline
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If you are resorting to jumper wires it's time to rewire. Here's why: If the wiring is in such poor shape that you need a jumper wire across part of it there is a very good probability that some other part of the wiring will go out soon. Usually at the most inopportune time............Been There. Done it. Didn't like it.

If you need coaching with soldering technique let us know.

TRUE GRIT
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  #61   IP: 174.61.235.18
Old 05-02-2014, 12:27 PM
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Don felt it was a combination of wiring and starter.

I've already replaced the purple wire, with new #14. I guess I could replace it again, but I doubt that's going to make much difference.

I don't think there's a red wire to the switch only to the solenoid and it's all fairly new. The white wire is what's left to the S term - it's older #12.

I need to take a look again at the circuit again. I just have an ignition switch and a push button.

Jack
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  #62   IP: 161.213.49.150
Old 05-02-2014, 01:03 PM
JOHN COOKSON JOHN COOKSON is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackConnick View Post
Pretty much the same issue, lots of cranking, but it did start after a bit. Jack
Is the choke all the way closed?

TRUE GRIT
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  #63   IP: 24.152.131.153
Old 05-02-2014, 07:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackConnick View Post
I just have an ignition switch and a push button.
If your start switch is powered through the ignition switch I still like the 30 amp (DC) rating.
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  #64   IP: 166.147.120.48
Old 05-02-2014, 11:04 PM
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Neil, outstanding logic there regarding the hot wire usage actually indicating suspect ignition wiring!

Jack, before pulling your starter id probably go back and give a real hard look at the ignition circuitry and switch, paying particular attention to your connections. Don is certainly the guru but you may be missing something critical that he would notice in person-- like a wiring terminal connection.

Johns advice to make this top notch is really good and will provide long term reliability that helps your future work.

In my limited experience it's usually smaller things like marginal wiring and connections that are most of my trouble. Unfortunately I don't catch them until after wasting a bunch of time on other things first! ;-)
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  #65   IP: 174.61.235.18
Old 07-12-2014, 07:41 PM
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Just to close this issue

Had the starter rebuilt (now I have an issue with it that I posted).

Then I replaced the "purple" 14 gauge wire with 12 gauge and it starts like a champ.

Thanks for all the ideas and help.

Jack
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Old 07-12-2014, 08:24 PM
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Is this a late or early model starter/solenoid? I'm guessing late model Delco.
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  #67   IP: 107.0.6.242
Old 07-13-2014, 10:14 AM
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Talking

I doubt if upgrading that wire from #14 to #12 actually solved the problem. More likely there was a bad terminal or more at the ignition switch, or a faulty connection in a terminal which got corrected by changing the wire. I don't like those switches and have eliminated them from my boat.
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  #68   IP: 174.61.235.18
Old 07-13-2014, 01:03 PM
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Late model Delco.
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