No Power and no RPMs

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  • RobH2
    Senior Member
    • Dec 2009
    • 321

    #46
    Ok, I've started. I'll tackle the valve issues once the head is off. I'm glad to hear I can do it in the boat. And yes John, I may just take you up on that. Gas and crabs are a fair barter. Do you live in Baltimore? If so, what area? I'm in Towson and the boat's in Fells Point.

    I PBB'd the bolts today and spun them all off. Two brought the studs along. I PBB'd them heavily again and left it sitting till tomorrow. I tapped on all of the studs (nuts on the ends) and then tried to tap a screwdriver in. No go. I didn't want to drive the screwdriver too agressively.

    The photo below may be some indication of why I was overheating a bit. Holey moley... do I have to get a whole new thermostat kit now? They are kind of expensive and I'm working on fumes for dollars right now. I'd like to just clean up the housing and drop a new reasonably priced thermostat in for now. Later when the funds are better I can upgrade. (EDIT) I'm reading and answering my own questions. It appears that replacing just the thermostat I have now is about $80. It looks like I'm better off just biting the bullet and getting a kit.

    Glad to learn that the engine is a little newer than I thought. However, I don't know why a 1968 boat would get a new motor just a few years later. Odd. Yes, the alternator is 120 amp and the manifold is newish. That's why the exhaust, at least the hot part, was so clean when I inspected it yesterday. Some attention has been paid to the exhaust in the not too distant past.

    It's a good thing I'm doing this head job. When I got the alternator off I found that the clamp for the water hose from the pump to the center of the block had rusted off and was gone. That was a time bomb.

    Lastly, is there a thermostat gasket from an auto parts shop that will work. I placed my order for head gaskets last night and called this morning at 8AM to add the gasket but was told it was too late. As soon as you click "Submit" for an order it's a done deal. I just wanted to save the duplicated shipping charges.

    Last edited by RobH2; 03-26-2010, 03:49 PM.
    Rob--

    "Who is staring at the sea is already sailing a little."

    1968 C&C Invader 36' / Late Model Atomic4
    https://www.tumblr.com/sherloch7

    sigpic

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    • Kurt
      Senior Member
      • Jun 2007
      • 290

      #47
      That thermostat looks unlike the one I have in my A4. At any rate, thermostats clean up nicely when placed in a pot, cup, etc. of vinegar to soak for 12-24 hours. Mine looked terrible and now looks new after a vinegar soak.

      Comment

      • thatch
        Afourian MVP
        • Dec 2009
        • 1080

        #48
        gasket tip, etc.

        RobH2,

        I photocopy easy to make gaskets (new ones), measure their thickness and note what kind of material they are made of. The photos are kept in a kit with bulk gasket material, hole cutters and some x-acto knives. In the case of your thermostat cover the gasket is made of a fiber material that is .030" thick.
        An effective way to help break the bond between the cylinder head and the studs is to tap around the circumference of the stud nuts (I use a drift rather than a screwdriver) to crush the rust which may or may not be there depending on how well the stud was sealed into the block.
        Take it slowly, Tom

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        • RobH2
          Senior Member
          • Dec 2009
          • 321

          #49
          I'm off to get some Vinegar Kurt.

          Tom, thanks for the tapping around the circumference tip. How softly to I need to tap to prevent damage to the head? I'm sure it's tough but I'm sure you just can't wail on it without hurting something.

          Lastly, I'll make a gasket. That sounds like a good skill to have anyway. I have some nice punches for holes and I guess I can get gasket material at an autoparts store.
          Rob--

          "Who is staring at the sea is already sailing a little."

          1968 C&C Invader 36' / Late Model Atomic4
          https://www.tumblr.com/sherloch7

          sigpic

          Comment

          • thatch
            Afourian MVP
            • Dec 2009
            • 1080

            #50
            Keep on tappin'

            HobH2,
            The holes in the cylinder head are drilled at the factory at 13/32" so there is actually a decent amount of stud clearance. Despite this clearance, rust tends to expand to fill the gap and normally needs to be loosened up a bit. At this point it would only be fair to warn you that sometimes people glue these heads on a little too vigorousely and they can be a bear to unstick.
            Tom

            Comment

            • RobH2
              Senior Member
              • Dec 2009
              • 321

              #51
              What's too much force?

              As I tap a screwdriver into the gap how agressive can I be? I don't want to crack the head or displace metal along the mating edges. Can I pound in with some force or do I need to just solidly tap? I know that's a hard question to ansewer. One guys tap is another brute force blow.
              Rob--

              "Who is staring at the sea is already sailing a little."

              1968 C&C Invader 36' / Late Model Atomic4
              https://www.tumblr.com/sherloch7

              sigpic

              Comment

              • Baltimore Sailor
                Afourian MVP
                • May 2007
                • 640

                #52
                When I did my head gasket replacement I made some wedges out of 2X4s with very small angles. I used a screwdriver with a bit of force just to open up the gap the slightest bit. Then I put the wooden wedges in there and hammered away, moving around the head as the gap opened.

                If you make the wedges small enough (5-10 deg) you might be able to get them in there with a hammer and not even need a screwdriver.

                Don't be too scared.

                Comment

                • Marian Claire
                  Afourian MVP
                  • Aug 2007
                  • 1768

                  #53
                  ROBH2: A “hive tool” works well for this job. Dan S/V Marian Claire

                  Comment

                  • keelcooler
                    Senior Member
                    • Oct 2008
                    • 282

                    #54
                    I will be in Baltimore tomorrow afternoon. No problem stopping off in Fells Point. Call me w/marina and slip no. Two day stud soaking w/the blaster did the trick for me. Your motor does not look that bad.

                    Comment

                    • RobH2
                      Senior Member
                      • Dec 2009
                      • 321

                      #55
                      Hive Tool

                      Had to look that one up. I have what is almost identical...a pry bar...not a crowbar mind you... Good idea.
                      Rob--

                      "Who is staring at the sea is already sailing a little."

                      1968 C&C Invader 36' / Late Model Atomic4
                      https://www.tumblr.com/sherloch7

                      sigpic

                      Comment

                      • tenders
                        Afourian MVP
                        • May 2007
                        • 1440

                        #56
                        Hive tool, huh. I had no idea what that was going to be, but it is indeed beekeeper miscellany.


                        Good tip, probably better than the "Wonder Bar" I keep onboard and rarely ever use.

                        This should win some kind of award for most arcane piece of technology brought to bear against an Atomic Four.
                        Last edited by tenders; 03-27-2010, 01:08 AM.

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                        • Marian Claire
                          Afourian MVP
                          • Aug 2007
                          • 1768

                          #57
                          Sparkplugs???? Dan S/V Marian Claire

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                          • RobH2
                            Senior Member
                            • Dec 2009
                            • 321

                            #58
                            Baltimore on Saturday

                            Originally posted by keelcooler View Post
                            I will be in Baltimore tomorrow afternoon. No problem stopping off in Fells Point. Call me w/marina and slip no. Two day stud soaking w/the blaster did the trick for me. Your motor does not look that bad.
                            John, I PM'd you with my phone number. Did you receive it?

                            -Rob
                            Rob--

                            "Who is staring at the sea is already sailing a little."

                            1968 C&C Invader 36' / Late Model Atomic4
                            https://www.tumblr.com/sherloch7

                            sigpic

                            Comment

                            • RobH2
                              Senior Member
                              • Dec 2009
                              • 321

                              #59
                              Head is Off

                              I had the pleasure of an expert stopping by today to oversee my head removal. John "keelcooler" dropped by to see what kind of a mess I was making. With his encouragement and direction I was able to get the head off in about an hour. It doesn't look too bad.

                              We also noticed that the "Cylinder Water inlet manifold" looked pretty bad. John suggested I take care of it properly while I had everything apart...I agreed. I began to remove the bolts. Four of them rung off. Crap...

                              I spent the next four hours using a bolt extractor set getting them out. I then dressed the threads with a tap. So, that's done.

                              When I went to turn the brass pipe that led to the water jacket drain between the water pump and the alternator it just fell off leaving its threads in the hole. I haven't tackled removing them yet. I see in a post here how to take care of it.

                              I also included a photo of my vinegar cleaned thermostat. Unfortunately pretty doesn't make it work. I put it in a pot of water which began to boil and nothing happened. Looks like I'll need a new one.

                              So that's the progress for today. I'll keep updating...

                              --Rob




                              Last edited by RobH2; 03-28-2010, 01:43 AM.
                              Rob--

                              "Who is staring at the sea is already sailing a little."

                              1968 C&C Invader 36' / Late Model Atomic4
                              https://www.tumblr.com/sherloch7

                              sigpic

                              Comment

                              • Marian Claire
                                Afourian MVP
                                • Aug 2007
                                • 1768

                                #60
                                Nice job guys. Those cooling passageways can be tough to clean. I ended up having to carefully drill some of that stuff out. An ice pick was also handy. Do you plan to pull the manifold?
                                As a side note: notice how even the color is on your head and block. On the pics I posted see how black #4 is. That is where I found the broken rings. FWIW.
                                Dan S/V Marian Claire

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