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  #1   IP: 71.190.51.126
Old 08-06-2015, 07:45 PM
azazzera azazzera is offline
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EI timing difficulty

I am trying to time my EI but am getting hung up. Ive watched the MMI video on timing the engine and then went to try it myself. I set the distributer as instructed then placed the black lead from the module to the neg. post of the coil and the red lead to the positive post of the coil. got my continuity probe and put the clip on one of the posts and touched the probe end to the other post. the light lit no matter were the distributer was rotated. it was always on. I took all the leads off of both posts of the coil and hooked the probe up again and it lit. Don't know if that should happen. I then clipped one of the ends of the probe to one of the leads of the EI module while they were off the coil and touched the probe to the other lead while rotating the distributer. No light. Don't know if I should have gotten a light. Im thinking that by rotating the distributer I'm simply opening and closing a circuit. A magnetic switch, Yes/No. I need some direction on this one. I hope I described everything enough for a diagnosis or further direction on how to time this thing. I purchased the EI from MMI. Thanks. Im so close to firing this beast up I can taste it. I turned the engine over and got 40 psi on the oil pressure. did compression test and from 1-4 it was 100-90-90-90. Im getting very excited to get it started just need to clear this hurdle. Just need you guys to pick my ass up and throw me over. hopefully I will learn something on the way over.
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  #2   IP: 12.216.194.200
Old 08-07-2015, 06:12 AM
smosher smosher is offline
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The EI is a magnetic switch with one side at VDC and the other side shows the dc power going to the disty. This power is alternating which increases the volts out of the coil center tap. I don't believe there are any dwell adjustments on the ei.

How are you rotating the disty ?

I would start the engine and go from there.

Steve
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  #3   IP: 66.87.117.218
Old 08-07-2015, 07:16 AM
azazzera azazzera is offline
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I was trying to follow the video from mmi describing how to time the distributor. You move the distributor by loosening the hold down clamp that holds the body of the distributor and you rotate it relative to the rotor. That's how timing is set. My question is how was mr Moyer getting his continuity prob to work the way he was on the video. I still don't understand. Other than trying to start the engine how can I confirm that the EI module is working properly.
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  #4   IP: 97.93.94.201
Old 08-07-2015, 09:52 AM
Dave Neptune Dave Neptune is online now
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az, I did not see Don's video however what you are describing sounds like setting points. Not sure it will work with the magnetic trigger.

Get #1 to TDC on the compression stroke and line up the rotor with #1 moving the distributor. Double check for firing order and give her a start up. Be ready to move the distributor for a smooth idle while it warms a bit. Then put her in gear and get her to around 15~1700 against the lines if you can, now twist slightly to get the most RPM! Once you have reached max RPM's back the timing off (retard) a tiny bit IE a couple of degrees and leave it for a while.

Dave Neptune
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  #5   IP: 71.179.187.154
Old 08-07-2015, 10:20 AM
Overdraft Overdraft is offline
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Well, I've not seen the video so I can't properly address what Moyer is saying there, but I do have his book which describes the procedure. I have recently installed an EI on my (old style) A4. He says to connect a timing light across the poles of the coil. I would call that a "test lamp"--a 12 volt bulb with wires attached. ( To me a timing light is a strobe light which flashes when a spark plug fires). IF that is what you have, then yes it should go on and off as the engine rotates. Or with the engine set at TDC, slightly rotating the distributor should make it go on and off. If the light is on continuously, that implies that the EI never opens the circuit -- could be faulty EI, faulty magnet ring, or short to ground in the black wire. (Errant thought: if the distributor was not installed correctly--with the rotor pointed towards the plug connection-- then the distributor might have to be rotated through a considerable angle before the connection would open, and the spark would not be "distributed" correctly.) During installation you need to have heeded the instructions about getting the magnet ring installed completely down on the cam and the rotor must not contact the inside of the distributor cap. In my case, on an old style distributor, I had to file down the bottom of the rotor to gain clearance because the magnet ring was so fat (tall).
But--You say you are using a "continuity" tester. Many people use that term interchangeably with a test light. A continuity tester might be a lamp with a battery which turns on when the probes are touched together (or an ohm meter). IF you really are using a "continuity" tester, then it will always show continuity (low ohms) through the coil if you put the probes on the two posts of the coil. Make sure you are using a voltage sensitive device, either a test lamp or a volt meter, to test the EI using the illustrated procedure.
Sorry to be so verbose. Suggest you pull the distributor out and verify it turns freely without interference with the cap, then reinstall verifying proper position. Then verify you have a test lamp and re-check.
good luck. Cheers.
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  #6   IP: 71.179.187.154
Old 08-07-2015, 10:28 AM
Overdraft Overdraft is offline
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OK, now I've re-read your original post, in which you say you took the wires off the coil and tested it: that very much makes it sound like you have a continuity tester ( is there a battery in it?). Suggest you get a cheap multimeter from a hardware store and use that to measure the voltage. You can measure the voltage across the coil (shows 12V when the EI is "closed"), or from the negative side to ground (shows 12V when EI "open"). Either way will let you set the "break" point. And yes, it worked with my EI.
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  #7   IP: 129.49.122.160
Old 08-07-2015, 12:11 PM
azazzera azazzera is offline
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Yes I have a battery in my tester. I will take out battery and use as straight circuit tester or gett proper tool. But I'm still confused about doing test. Dose that mean that I need to have 12 volts passing through the ingnition circuit to do this timing. If I do need the ignition circuit on and voltage passing through do I have the same concerns about leaving it on too long and burning the coil. If I don't need any voltage passing through then please explain how that all works to illuminate a light with no current flow. Thanks to all for the responses especially mr Moyer himself who was very gracious to not only email me back but call me as well. A true mensch.

Last edited by azazzera; 08-07-2015 at 12:41 PM.
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  #8   IP: 129.49.122.160
Old 08-07-2015, 12:14 PM
azazzera azazzera is offline
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So one added note. The engine is out of the boat.
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  #9   IP: 71.179.187.154
Old 08-07-2015, 01:24 PM
Overdraft Overdraft is offline
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... But I'm still confused about doing test. Dose that mean that I need to have 12 volts passing through the ingnition circuit to do this timing.

----Yes, with the EI. With your old breaker point set-up you could have used your continuity tester on the un-energized circuit to detect the points opening by checking continuity to ground (not across the coil). However, the EI is a transistor circuit which must be energized to operate. That's why there is the red wire also going to the distributor from the hot side of the coil.

...If I do need the ignition circuit on and voltage passing through do I have the same concerns about leaving it on too long and burning the coil.
---yes, but I think it takes a long time to heat the coil when the engine is cold. Check it with your hand on occasion and let it cool if needed.

..If I don't need any voltage passing through then please explain how that all works to illuminate a light with no current flow.
---you DO need the voltage.


[/QUOTE]
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  #10   IP: 66.87.117.207
Old 08-07-2015, 01:41 PM
azazzera azazzera is offline
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Overdraft. Thank you. Your reply confirms my thoughts on red lead on EI but absence on point style ingnitions. I was quietly suspecting my lack of voltage and use of circuit tester instead of voltage tester was to blame. I suppose that when I used the circut tester on the leads from module that the 1.5 volts that was sent was not sufficiently to turn the circuit on. Ok so I will try when I get home. Making sure that when I use the continuity tester without the battery that the light can handle the current. Thanks again.
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  #11   IP: 66.87.116.39
Old 08-08-2015, 07:06 PM
azazzera azazzera is offline
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Just wanted to report that I started the engine today for the first time since rebuild. It started on first try. Very surprised and happy. Now dealing with no water out from manifold. Water seen out of manifold at first them stopped. Temp climbed to 200. And I shut it down for the day until I investigate. Steam out of hose that was connected to water out from manifold. My first look will be at water pump to see if I have water flowing. Then I guess work it down stream to see why it's not flowing. I have a seeking suspicion that it may be the amount and height I'm asking the pump to pull the water.

However I thank you all for your help getting me to this point. I could not have done it without this site or MMI. And I have to work on some type of muffler or my neighbors will be calling the federalies on me. Thanks again.
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