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  #51   IP: 173.67.45.252
Old 04-23-2019, 10:47 PM
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I misspoke. Yep, I realize that. No matter how I set the valve, I rarely hit 150°. I'm unclear now as to what temp is the best to be running at. But that's for a different thread.

Let me report back soon about my oil issue and get that solved.
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Old 04-24-2019, 04:53 PM
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I can shed a little light on the temp subject - pre 1969 A4, early models [mine], have a 140 F degree Dole thermostat setup. Reason was to eliminate or minimize salt leaching out of water at higher temps forming deposits. The A4 runs fine at 140 but at 20 -30 higher temps it should run a little better. Best running temps depend on where you use your boat.
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Old 04-24-2019, 06:47 PM
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Ok, so I'm ignorant on the temps. I thought it need to be closer to 180 to prevent salt leaching out. I appear to have been mistaken. I'm in the Patapsco River which leads into the Chesapeake Bay. The salinity in the Patapsco is between 5 and 10 ppt. So, what temp should I target?

Second and more importantly for the short-term:
I'm installing my newly built exhaust pipe tomorrow. It currently has a hose connecting the lift and the water injection fitting that has a wire inside. It took me two hours to get it on originally as I have no space to work and it's all one-handed. Can I use a hose that has NO wire in that 3" location?
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Old 04-24-2019, 08:20 PM
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Old 04-24-2019, 09:01 PM
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For that short run, an un-reinforced hose will work just fine. Have you considered lowering the hot section onto the water-lift first and then installing the flange bolts? Many of us prefer using studs and nuts in the manifold to save wear and tear on those valuable threads and which may also ease the reassembly.
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Old 04-24-2019, 09:20 PM
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Tom, those are great suggestions. I didn't mention, one of the bolts (of course the harder one to get to) into my manifold wrung off and I had a really hard time getting it out. I will definitely use studs and bolts.

Also, you make a good point. I'll attach the hose first and then bring it to the manifold. Now that you say it, it seems like a "no-brainer" but sometimes you just need for someone else to say it.

I will use wire reinforced since the repair is not intended for the "short-term". If you had said, "sure, won't matter" then I wouldn't have. But since there is some concern, I'll go "wire".

Good suggestions. I hope this fixes my issue. We'll know by the weekend.
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Old 04-25-2019, 10:24 AM
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Rob, you could also use silicone hose which is designed for that application. Lots of power boater engines use them between the manifold and exhaust to allow the engine to move independently..

I bet they are a bit more $$ than old wire exhaust hose though.
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Old 04-26-2019, 01:47 PM
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Rob, I had the issue with engine running cold. I did not have a thermostat and just used bypass valve. I've installed Indigo thermostat last year that recirculates cold water back into the engine. With that setup my engine consistently in 130-140F range. I am very happy about this new setup.
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Old 04-26-2019, 09:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wisakedjack View Post
Rob, I had the issue with engine running cold. I did not have a thermostat and just used bypass valve. I've installed Indigo thermostat last year that recirculates cold water back into the engine. With that setup my engine consistently in 130-140F range. I am very happy about this new setup.
This is interesting to hear. What kind of water are you in? I always run in the same range as you.

I'm in slightly salty water in the upper Chesapeake Bay. There has been some talk that water temperature has some effect with salty water but no one has been specific about it so far. I'm still trying to figure out if I should be having a higher or lower average temperature when in slightly salty water.
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Old 04-27-2019, 02:30 AM
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My boat is in New Jersey (Raritan Bay) so the water should be pretty similar.
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Old 04-28-2019, 03:52 PM
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Update:

I'm still getting water incursion. Things I've done:

1. Rebuilt the exhaust
2. Pressure treated water jacket twice. 2nd test held 5 lbs for nearly 3 days.

I've now run (wasted 8 gallons of oil) trying to diagnose. So I've pulled the water pump. I've ordered seals and a new shaft. The water must be getting injected at the pump, at least I hope. There "is" wear on my shaft but I don't think enough to leak but I'm replacing it just to role it out. That's a cheap place of mind, right?

I've attached a few photos of the pump. Updates soon.
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Old 04-28-2019, 05:07 PM
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did you do the pressure test of the pump?

Peter
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Old 04-28-2019, 08:23 PM
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No, that is one thing I neglected to do. I've pulled it and I guess I could just put it back together and pressure test it to see if it leaks. I'll do that while I wait on parts.

The water was found in the oil the same day I changed the impeller. I've always been suspicious that it was somehow related, but the sheer volume of water led me away from it. I guess in retrospect I should have tested it first. At the same time I was seeing steam on the exhaust wrapping and that lead me down the exhaust rabbit hole. Coincidences to happen and it is possible that my pump and exhaust both malfunctioned at the same time.

I hope these new water pump parts solve it. We'll see in a few days.
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Old 04-28-2019, 08:40 PM
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Rob, you wouldn't be the first one looking for a single solution to multiple problems.
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Old 04-28-2019, 08:50 PM
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I hear you Neil.

Here's how I see it now. I've rebuilt the exhaust so I know it can't be a culprit. Once I rebuld the pump, I'll know that it's not the cause. So if I still get water incursion I'll know where I "don't" need to look.

One person mentioned a bolt inside the head or something that can leak. But since my jacket held pressure for nearly 3 days, I don't think I have an internal leak or crack.

It has to be the water pump seals I'm thinking. Only thing is, the volume of water is such that some of you have said it's unlikely that it's the water pump. I just don't know.

Let me get these rebuild parts in from Moyer and see what happens. I may have good news. If not, we'll start looking at some other causes.
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Old 04-28-2019, 08:54 PM
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Rob, I may be heading into the same rabbit hole. I also have lots of water in oil and I did change the impeller this spring. I am yet to do pressure tests to rule out other sources. But I am curious whether leak in Oberdorfer water pump could result in so much water in oil? I've seen Don't comments in few threads and I understand some water could get through, but not a lot? Please, keep us posted about your progress. I am very interested to learn what you find and how you solve (hopefully soon) your issue. Cheers and good luck with your repairs
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Old 04-28-2019, 08:59 PM
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Really, that's interesting and unfortunate for you also.

I will certainly report in. This is a great forum with a lot of very knowledgable guys. When I bought my boat 9-years ago I had a severe overheating problem that was very evasive. These guys helped me solve it and the engine has run like a top until I changed the oil three weeks ago.

I'll report back later this week.
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Old 04-28-2019, 09:16 PM
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Run the engine without the water pump and see what happens. You can *carefully* use dock water to cool the engine. Do NOT run the water full blast, you want just enough to get decent water flow out of the exhaust.
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Old 04-28-2019, 10:31 PM
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Quote:
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Run the engine without the water pump and see what happens. You can *carefully* use dock water to cool the engine. Do NOT run the water full blast, you want just enough to get decent water flow out of the exhaust.
Really? Would never have attempted to do that. I guess I can just start with a very slow flow and very carefully increase flow as I see the temp rise and then back off as it approaches 150 or 160. Does that seem like a good way to approach it?
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Old 04-29-2019, 08:48 AM
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This suggestion to run the engine without the water pump leads me to a couple of questions.

1. As I look at the water pump closer, I don't see how it can cause much if any water to get into the engine. The two weep holes prevent any pressure build-up at the point where the shaft enters the engine to connect to whatever is rotating that it mates with. If the seal on the engine at that hole was leaking I'd see that and I don't. The seals that I ordered and am waiting for really just seal the water pump itself from leaking. It appears to me that if the water pump was leaking, even heavily, that the only thing that would occur would be water in the bilge.

2. A comment was made to run the engine with the exhaust off (with cautions) to eliminate the possibility of backflow from the wet exhaust. I'm wondering what those precautions might be? The noise is obvious but I envision flames shooting out the back of manifold just under my fuel line. If I pull the water hose from the brass exhaust water injector fitting and send that to the bilge, isn't that sufficient for running with the exhaust as if the pipe had been taken off? The only thing I worry about there is if if the superheated exhaust might overheat the lift and the hoses beyond it. I mean, that actually does get used without water as I have the water intake shut off when I start the engine. Then once the idle stabilizes and doesn't stall, I open the intake. So that whole exhaust line to the back of the boat already gets just pure hot air every time I start. Just for not very long.

So, if it wouldn't damage anything to divert the water from the back of the manifold so that is skips the exhaust injector fitting and I cool the engine from a dock hose, wouldn't that be an adequate way to test the engine?

3. Back to using dock water to cool the engine with the pump off. What's the danger of pushing the water a little too fast? Imagine I have the water hose from the back of the manifold diverted away from the exhaust injector and into the bilge (or overboard). What would too much water hurt except cooling too fast and not letting the engine heat up? I assume that as long as I'm not exceeding 20lbs (I only say this because that's the pressure used to do a pressure test) of pressure that it wouldn't hurt anything.

As I think about this more I'm becoming more and more baffled. Assuming that the waterpump is not capable of injecting tons of water into the engine, and that the exhaust is brand new and has no leaks, and that the water jacket held air for nearly 3 days, where else could the water get in? That's the million dollar question and the one we're trying to solve....just thinking out loud....baffling...!
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Old 04-29-2019, 10:00 AM
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Dock water - you can do a lot of damage with a 100 PSI water feed. If nothing else, you'll overwhelm the exhaust system and backflood the engine. I would find a hose setting above a trickle but not with the water shooting out very far. The goal is not starving the exhaust system of water and melting the hose on one hand and not overheating the engine on the other. For a point of reference, my water pump failed once and I plumbed in the galley pressure water pump as a substitute. I was a bit nervous at idle and didn't run at low RPMs much and the engine would overheat past about 3/4s power. That was a 3 GPH/40 PSI pump. A typical water hose is a LOT more than that.

Exhaust check - actual flames will not come out. The idea is no water at all should be exiting the exhaust manifold. You take the riser off and run the engine and look. It will be LOUD and carbon monoxide will be in abundance. So you start it, look, see water or no water, and shut it off 20 seconds later. My old engine would shoot water out of there because it had issues with water getting out around the manifold studs.
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Old 04-29-2019, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joe_db View Post
Dock water - you can do a lot of damage with a 100 PSI water feed. If nothing else, you'll overwhelm the exhaust system... and shut it off 20 seconds later. My old engine would shoot water out of there because it had issues with water getting out around the manifold studs.
10-4 on all of that. Thank you.
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Old 04-29-2019, 10:28 AM
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Quote:
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10-4 on all of that. Thank you.
I want to restate the CO danger. Enough CO can kill you VERY fast. I would make this a two person operation. One watches and one runs the engine to look at the exhaust.
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  #73   IP: 173.67.45.252
Old 05-01-2019, 12:20 PM
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I'm chasing a ghost now it seems and I'm trying to look where it makes the most sense.

Can I assume that there is no way a water pump (with clear weep holes) can contribute more than a few drops of water to the oil?

As I prepare to put new seals in mine (Oberdorfer) I realize that the water pump can't be the cause of large amounts of water or else the seal on the block where the pump shaft enters would be showing signs of severe leaking. And, mine is completely sound.
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Old 05-01-2019, 12:45 PM
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Ok, we feel your pain here.
That water is coming from somewhere.

Is there any chance that the gauge on the pressure test was faulty?
Do you think it's worth another run at that again using another gauge?
(Maybe one with a smaller scale to it?)
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Old 05-01-2019, 01:24 PM
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Good thought Jerry but you maybe missed a post. I bought a new bike pump and ran the test again. I pumped it to 20lbs and after 1.5 hours it lost maybe 1-2 lbs. The pump was at the water output hose and I had a release valve at the water ejection hose at the back of the manifold.

I left the boat and came back 2 days later and had forgotten to release the pressure. I looked at the gauge and was surprised to see I still have 5lbs in the water jacket. I turned the release valve at the manifold and let the pressure out.

So, I know the pressure made it all the way to the manifold.

I'm rambling, but I feel confident my water jacket is sound. Also, If the manifold bolts, water pump PTO or any other water jacket point of incursion or exit were leaky, I'd have seen that.

I'm baffled. New exhaust, water lift looked fine, no corrosion or visible problems, new water hoses.
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