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  #1   IP: 24.209.170.115
Old 09-06-2010, 09:01 AM
sproption sproption is offline
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Leaking Carb..choke lever?!?!?

Hi All.

I am in need of advice.

Getting ready for a Sunday sail, I discovered to my horror, about 1 gallon of gasoline in my bilge.

I have a late model A-4 with Series 68 carburator.

I traced the fuel leak to somewhere in my carb. I have never taken off or maintained my carb since I purchased from PO two years ago.

I am on an Ericson-29 so my access to the carburator side of the engine ranges from extremely tight to nearly impossible to reach. (I will post some photos soon.)

I shut down my fuel valve at the fuel tank, soaked up what gas I could and shut off my electrical system.

After some 2 hours of observation and the use of mirrors, I came to the conclusion that the fuel leak seams to be coming from the Choke Lever. I thought it would be coming from the 1/8 pipe scavange tube connection or a gasket higher up, but no, it seems to be from the Choke Lever shaft/plate.

I am on the verge of removing my carburator all together, bring it home and address the leak issue (If I can).

Does anyone have experience with a leaky carburator in the Choke Lever area? Does this sound possible or right?

Thanks

Matt
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Old 09-06-2010, 09:43 AM
ArtJ ArtJ is offline
 
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I am wondering if you could have a stuck float valve. Have you tried
tapping on the carburetor bowl, or removing the bowl to check?

IF it comes to that Moyer sells rebuild kits for the carburetor.

Also do a search on this site for carburetor as there are many other
posts from more knowledgeable people than I .


Regards
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  #3   IP: 24.152.131.220
Old 09-06-2010, 09:43 AM
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I'm thinking with that volume of leakage the problem has to be the float valve. It's either deteriorated or there's some debris in there preventing it from sealing and therefore allowing a siphon from the fuel tank. The carb needs to be removed and dismantled to get to the valve.

The visible area of leakage is where the fuel found a way out of the carb.

edit: Art beat me to the punch
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Old 09-06-2010, 09:45 AM
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Al Schober Al Schober is offline
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If the carb is flooding, the gas is going to leak out the lowest point it can. I would expect it to leak out between the carb body and the flame arrestor, but if that has a good seal, then the choke shaft is next up.
Sounds like the float is no longer shutting off the float valve, and the bowl is overflowing. I would remove the carb (catching the gas) and rebuild it, including a new float valve. If you don't have a fuel filter inline, this would be a good time to add one.
Don't blow up your boat - be careful.

Al
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Old 09-06-2010, 09:58 AM
hanleyclifford hanleyclifford is offline
 
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Talking shut of valve

You did not mention in your post but do you make a practice of shutting off the fuel at the tank each time you leave the boat? A good habit to get in to.
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Old 09-06-2010, 10:09 AM
hanleyclifford hanleyclifford is offline
 
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Talking

Before you go removing the carb and doing a rebuild try running the engine again and observing if the leak occurs while the engine is running. It is possible that a small piece of material got into that needle and seat and held it open so fuel could get by and over time get enough fuel into the carb to spill into the bilge. You did not mention if you have a second fuel filter just before the carb. Most of us do and this helps keep junk from getting to the carb. I suggest you install that second filter, turn on the fuel and run the engine again. The blockage may clear itself and you save money and aggravation.
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Old 09-06-2010, 11:55 AM
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Gasoline spills

I second Al's caution, leaking gasoline is very dangerous business.

One of the first items I bought for my boat was a Xintrex fume sniffer that interfaces with the bilge blower. In the event of gasoline spillage, the sniffer alarms and automatically turns on the blower. I had occasion to accidentally test it the last time I replaced my fuel filter cartridge. I fumbled the old cartridge into the bilge upside down spilling its contents. Within 30 seconds the sniffer alarmed and the blower did its duty.

I leave the sniffer armed at all times, when I'm not there too. It's a sentinel that's on guard when I can't be.
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Old 09-06-2010, 12:21 PM
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Another thing you can try is to drain your carb by removing the main passage plug if you can reach it. I think it is a 1/2" bolt at the aft end of the carb in this picture: http://www.moyermarine.com/360/r2z1.html A few ounces of fuel should leak out which you may be able to catch in a container. Sometimes this is enough to free up the float valve needle and seat.
Once you drain the carb a few gentle whacks with a screwdriver handle on the main carb bowl (just forward of the drain plug in pic) can also help dislodge a blockage. Eventually you'll have to remove the carb for a cleaning but hopefully not today.
I'll second what Hanley said about making it a practice of shutting off your main fuel valve (petcock) each time you leave your boat. If you leave your ignition keys hung on this valve then you will always remember to turn it on before starting the engine.
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Old 09-07-2010, 07:07 AM
sproption sproption is offline
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OK...wow. Thanks guys!

I do not have a second fuel filter...that was a winter to do.

Thanks for your hypothesis. Most of you came to the same conclusion, which really helps me! I will try to free without removing first.

I was in the habit of shutting off my fuel valve and running dry when I was done with my engine, when another A-4 owner told me that wasn't necessary. I will go back to that habit.

Matt
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Old 09-07-2010, 10:10 AM
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Matt, it isn't necessary as long as something doesn't lodge itself into your float valve! - relying on the float valve to hold back all the fuel is bad practice...but likely your 'friend' hasn't been unlucky enough to experience what you just did!

To make this task easier, I added a 2nd fuel shutoff petcock in the engine compartment where I can reach it...as Caleb mentioned, the way I remember is to hang the key on it..I still have the original petcock on the fuel tank itself, but it is a pain to get to (under the galley, steps, drawers in the way, etc..) so adding another one at the main Racor fuel filter is much more convenient and gets used regularly. If the float valve fails, only the fuel in the line & carb would leak..a much easier cleanup.
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Old 05-02-2011, 02:40 PM
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Lost in Kansas- Leaking carburetor

Last week I finished updating the fuel system. I ran the engine for 15 minutes and all was well. One minor leak at the shut off valve but all seemed good.
Saturday the skipper showed with some of her friends and wanted to go sailing. The engine started and ran 2 minutes with good indications and then died. Winds right so we just sailed in and out of the slip. Not long after we started the skipper said the was a very strong smell of gas. A quick check showed that we were leaking from the carburator. I too have an E29 and this is the one side of the engine you just can't get to or see. It leaked more when we heeled to port. We cut a beer can in half to capture gas and stayed on a starboard tack. Once back in the slip it kept up a slow drip. Fuel shut off was closed. I did not have a computer so I could not access the site. Not wanting to create a floating Malatov Cocktail I brought out my trusty manual and figured I need to take the carb off. Not knowing specifically, and it isn't labeled, I don't know if I did that 100% correctly. I was not sure what the throttle valve and and lever were. Or the choke lever valve. What I did was disconnect the fuel line, disconnected the throttle cable, choke cable and scavenger tube(?) I think that is what that tube is. I then undid the two bolts on the top and it came out. The whole carb and I now know the flame arrestor.
And there is no more fuel leaking in the boat.
The question is what do I do now?
I gather from the threads I can either clean it up or buy the kit.
I've never worked on a carb before so I am now at my absolute limit.
Here is a picture of the carb and flame arrestor.
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Old 05-02-2011, 05:56 PM
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Will Jacocks Will Jacocks is offline
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Get the kit! I am sure you can find a good friend or two that would love to play with your carb and get it humming again!
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Old 05-02-2011, 08:54 PM
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Smile Options.

That's an easy carb to work on even at home. I think one of the guys asked if you have a friend that's a bit of a gear head...if so, that would be perfect. You can rebuild it yourself though.

If you are really concerned bring it to a shop. A small engine repair guy could sort that out in about an hour...that would be your gasket faces all cleaned and new ones back in, jets cleaned and blown out with air, float and valve set up...all good to go.

Some new mechanics have never worked on carbs, however, the small engine guys do. Bring the manual and watch how he does it because the next time you get dirt etc you can do it. No gaskets sealers or compounds on those gaskets..put them in just as they are.
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The optimist expects it to change.
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Old 05-02-2011, 11:14 PM
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Had the same same concerns as you regarding an attempt at a rebuild. I bought the kit from MMI and it took about 4 hours. The kit comes with the same step by step instructions as found in the MMI overhaul manual. You can do it, just take your time.
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Old 05-02-2011, 11:31 PM
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I rebuilt mine. I think if I can do it, anyone can. Mine finally runs on the bench great. The carb is pretty simple.
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Old 05-02-2011, 11:48 PM
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Every engine is a little different but mostly they are the same.
On my engine the carb looks similar but is an aluminum Zenith carb with an old style air intake/flame arrestor that is oriented in the vertical axis as opposed to facing up or horizontal like pallen58's. I've had fuel leak out of the flame arrestor AND the choke mechanism before.
The float valve is frequently the culprit but not a problem lately since we rigidly stick to shutting the main fuel valve off when leaving the boat.
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Old 05-03-2011, 10:31 AM
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Thumbs up

pallen58..if that is you hiking your tail off in your avatar and you rigged it, you can likely do the carb. Moyer's instructions are so thorough I cannot imagine how painstaking it was to write them down, which makes life easy for people like us.

Other supplies to have handy...compressed air (compressor or the little computer cans) carb cleaner, Qtips..razor blade or your favorite pocket knife (for cleaning the gasket surfaces) & some other various wrenches, screwdrivers, needle nose pliers, & safety glasses!! (watch out when you squirt the carb cleaner) - A clean work area is important too..work on a nice clean surface (cardboard or a clean bench..my bench is a wreck, so I put something clean on top of it!)

I like to order my parts from Ken early in the week so they arrive before Friday, and then get to the task early on a Saturday morning at the workbench before I get distracted by butterflies, pretty girls and beer.
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Old 05-03-2011, 11:33 AM
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Thank you all for the responses. That is me on the Butterfly. The dingy helps keep the sailing in perspective. I will be ordering the parts from Ken today.
Thanks again
Pat
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Old 05-04-2011, 07:20 AM
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E29 Carb Access

Hi Pallen,

I too own an E29 and have off and on carb problems. I even bought a rebuilt carb from MM, but then couldnt get the old one off to replace it. I drained the gas out of the main bowl, and unstuck a stuck float with a few screwdriver handle raps! I also put some Marvels Mystery Oil in my gas, and have not had a problem since. Marvels Mystery Oil cures many woes!

My question is how did you get the carb off? Was it a special socket? Or did you do what I contemplated and cut the fiberglass panel under the galley sink to get to it?

I dont have a problem now--but am sure I will need to address it down the road. Your advice and experience would be appreciated.
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Old 05-04-2011, 10:41 AM
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In case you find it helpful, here is a link to pictures of the carb rebuild I did a couple of years ago:

Carb Rebuild Pictures
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Old 05-04-2011, 11:36 AM
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Marthur: great pictures. I think you also had the water pump ones. I took my screw driver to a friend with a torch yesterday so now I have my 90 degree bend,
Gmilburn: I can't imagine I have anymore room than you do. I first undid the copper fuel line. I then removed the throttle cable connection and choke connection from the carb. I then undid the scavenger tube. I got to the forward bolt pretty easy with a racheting closed wrench. The aft bolt was harder. I used an open ended box wrench and had to come up from under the throttle bracket to get it undone. At that point I found that the thottle cable was in a bracket that was still attached to the carb. There were two flat head screws holding that on. The only way I could get to them was to put some paper towels down and gently rotate the carb and undid them and the cable came out. I was then able to bring the carb up a little and out.
What I will do to put it back in is I have some small screw drivers that are bent at 90 degrees that are less than an inch from the tip to the bend. I got those at Ace. To get the aft bolt in, since there isn't clearance for a socket with an extension, I will get an open ended ratcheting box wrench. That is a Craftman tool now sold at Ace and Sears.
I am up in KC but do get down home to Fayetteville every couple of months so when you get ready let me know and I can make a trip.
Pat
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Old 05-08-2011, 12:50 PM
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Idle jet remove

I have the carb off and it is cleaned. Doing a close up inspection I see the top of the idle jet is chewed up. Guess the warning on page 4-4 of the manual wasn't heeded. I have a re-build kit on the way. How go I get that out? I don't see any way to do that. Can I drill it out? Thanks
Par
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Old 07-07-2018, 10:21 PM
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Carb leaking

After reading this thread I was wondering, if my float is stuck, damaged etc and there is too much fuel in the carb, WILL THE CARB LEAK?
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Old 07-08-2018, 12:37 AM
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Old 07-08-2018, 09:18 AM
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Sure, the carb can leak if the float is stuck in the “sunk” position and/or if the needle valve isn’t sealing. You occasionally hear situations where people come to their boats after a few days’ absence and smell fuel. This can be why. But the actual amount of fuel leaked is going to be pretty small.

This (and other fuel leaks, ie pinholes in fuel tank) is what you are heading off when you smell for fumes and run the blower every time before starting the engine.

If this happens with a running engine, it’s likely to make the engine run rich, not leak. But if the engine stalls, the OPSS exists to turn off the fuel pump and prevent a big leak from occurring.
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