ABYC Standards

[ndutton]

I didn't know about the sch 80 requirement and will be sure to follow it when I replace my hot section in the future. McMaster-Carr has it.

As I read the table, brass is allowed for the wet section (first column) but not the dry (hot) section (second column).

[msmith10]

Like other posters, I follow the ABYC standards when I feel they add something of value from a safety standpoint, or otherwise. I find that they make me aware of potential safety hazards that I would not otherwise be aware of. However, sometimes I don't think they're of sufficient concern to follow or they just may be impractical to try to fulfill in a 30+ year old boat, so I pick and choose.

[joe_db]

I had a fit when the surveyor wanted my CNG tanks in a propane-style locker. I had to explain that CNG is LIGHTER than air and confining it that way would be counter-productive.

Like other posters, I follow the ABYC standards when I feel they add something of value from a safety standpoint, or otherwise. I find that they make me aware of potential safety hazards that I would not otherwise be aware of. However, sometimes I don't think they're of sufficient concern to follow or they just may be impractical to try to fulfill in a 30+ year old boat, so I pick and choose.

[lat 64]

I am glad, however, that nobody ever simply twisted wires together with wire nuts - oh, except to hook up the VHF radio. That, in fact, is connected to power with two wire nuts. But those are the only wire nuts I have found on the boat.

Bill, I feel your pain.
Aaaactualy, The wires that were twisted together on my blower were not even held with wire nuts!
They were just twisted together like when one might test a circuit for continuity. They were just hanging out in space back in under the deck and got pushed together and started to melt. It was like someone wanted this boat to burn!

Hanley, interesting—I solder because I am too cheap to keep buying terminals when I keep changing things.

r.

[67c&ccorv]

The hard part is trying to live up to the ABYC standard when retrofitting an older vessel such as mine;

...such standards were almost non-existant when my boat was built and subsequent owners either didn't care or didn't know about ABYC standards!

Case in point - I recently found out that the only thing keeping my vessel from Davy Jones locker was the rubber gasket in the Whale Gusher Model 10 that a previous owner had installed below the waterline with the outlet below the waterline...

1. without a shutoffvalve at the thruhull;

2. or a checkvalve in the line!



Ya, true story, among many with this vessel - but she is coming along as time goes on!

[CalebD]

I voted 'Sometimes'

In order to comply with ABYC standards you first have to know what they are and I'm not paying $50 a pop for each standard for a one time fix.
MaineSail's Compass Marine website is a good resource as I'm fairly certain that he knows what the so called standards are.

If you research ABYC a bit you will find that it is largely funded by groups like the NMMA (Nat'l Marine Merchants Ass'n) and other marine industry players. This set up is a bit like assigning the fox to guard the hen house. That said, all boat makers needed to come up with a set of standards of best practices for many reasons. One reason was to have their products on the required list - like tinned wire.

[Donchnz]

Thanks Rick

I thought I was the only one outside, I thought if you used an acronym you should first state what it is.

Vince

[ILikeRust]

Looks like a couple messages got deleted from the thread?

Anyhow, just for the record and for anyone else coming along later to read this thread, the ABYC is the American Boat and Yacht Council, which is an industry association that establishes industry consensus standards for the safe construction of boats.

ABYC is not a government agency and its standards do not have the force of law, at least in the U.S. (not yet, anyhow). To be legally enforceable, they would have to be adopted by the proper regulatory authority. But they are generally viewed in the industry as best practices. They are largely geared towards manufacturers and boat repair and maintenance technicians. There are standards for certifying people who repair and maintain boats and their systems. The standards specify certain knowledge and abilities the person must demonstrate in order to be certified.

ABYC was created in 1954.

[joe_db]

I know someone who works for them.
They are actually pretty good reading, even if you can't follow all of them. You can run into issues with insurance surveys where they want a 30-40-50 year old boat to follow 2011 guidelines. I went round and round with one survey where they wanted the engine completely sealed off gas-tight from the rest of the boat Some things are just not possible as a retro-fit. I pointed out the FAA only makes you keep your airplane as certified when DESIGNED. Some companies still build airplanes today as a continuation of the 1930s era type certificate (Waco for one).
Things you do want to follow as best you can are fuel and propane regs. Those exist for very good reasons. The electrical stuff is mostly very good too. Tinned wire may be a conspiracy, but I had to replace every inch of non-tinned wire my boat was built with because it was dissolving into black dust. The grounding rules for shore power will save you or your diver's life!

[ndutton]

Cryptic acronyms

Sorry guys, with all the shorthand flying around here like PO, FWC, RWC, UHS, OPSS and the like, I wrongly assumed ABYC was universally known.

As far as the quality of the standards, they're really all we have. The USCG pretty closely parallels them and in some cases has adopted complete sections. It's then that they become enforceable. It's interesting too the conflicts reported here all have a common antagonist - the marine surveyor. There's an entity in dire need of regulation and oversight.

Getting back to standards, imagine what boats would be like without them. How many previous owner nightmares have we dealt with? Without the standards that would be the norm.

Said another way, what will your boat's next owner have to say about you?

[ILikeRust]

Getting back to standards, imagine what boats would be like without them. How many previous owner nightmares have we dealt with? Without the standards that would be the norm.

I think that's the issue - complete and utter lack of not only compliance with the standards, but of knowledge of the very existence of the standards. It's been my experience that your average Joe Boatowner doesn't comply with ABYC standards in making do-it-yerself repairs to his vessel in part because he's blissfully ignorant that ABYC even exists, let alone what its standards require. And even if he knows ABYC exists, he's not going to spend the money it takes to either become a member or get copies of the applicable standards. Or even if there is a way to get the standards cheaply or even free, he's not going to make that effort, and he's not going to take all that time to read the damn thing and try to parse it and understand what it requires, let alone go to the trouble and expense of actually doing what it says.

So your typical boat owner goes ahead and makes whatever repairs or mods he thinks are good, based on his own gut feel, past experience, what the guy in the slip next to him says, or what some guy who he knows who's owned a boat for years tells him, or whatever - regardless of whether an ABYC standard applies or what it says or anything else.

It seems to me analogous to your state's building code and local ordinances. Joe Homeowner thinks he's a handyman do-it-yerselfer and decides to rewire his garage, or renovate his kitchen and do all the plumbing himself. Does he even have the slightest clue what "the code" requires? And here, it actually IS a legally enforceable requirement. The guy is not even going to pull a permit from the municipality to do the work, let alone follow the code. He's going to go to Lowe's and buy himself a Bernz-o-matic torch and some copper pipe and stuff and start drilling holes in floor joists, based on what he saw some guy on an HGTV show do.

Seems to me there are "levels" of boat owners. I submit that merely by being here and actively participating in this type of discussion, those that are here are at least slightly above average, because we're at least seeking such knowledge and trying to learn what's "right". I know that a hell of a lot of boat owners don't go to the internet to search for such information. They just ask the guy behind the counter at West Marine or their local boat supply dealer or whatever - or just go to Lowe's and look for hardware that looks right and goops and stuff that say they're waterproof.

So yeah, we're ahead of the game, I think.

There's my 4 cents....

[ndutton]

I agree with almost everything you said, however

I submit that merely by being here and actively participating in this type of discussion, those that are here are at least slightly above average,

I think that's an understatement. This bunch here is light years ahead of your garden variety dock expert, West Marine clerk, many professional mechanics and some marine surveyors. I've said it before, this is a good place to be.

[ILikeRust]

I think that's an understatement. This bunch here is light years ahead of your garden variety dock expert, West Marine clerk, many professional mechanics and some marine surveyors.

I did say "at least"...

[roadnsky]

Said another way, what will your boat's next owner have to say about you?

Neil's point really rings true.
Just about everything I do on my boat has this consideration attached to it.
I want to do it right for myself first, but I'm always thoughtful of what the next Captain will think of the "improvement".

There is a huge list of those improvements on my vessel that I really wish the PO had considered me before doing them...

[keelcooler]

When Chris Craft started producing thousands of boats after ww2 they began developing preferred building standards. In the 50’s the refined standards were adopted by many builders. This is what ABYC started with, Chris Crafts bible. Volunteer marine experts through the years provided ABYC with the why and how recommendations contained within the voluntary standards. The standards were first provided at very little cost to cover publishing and related expenses. The goal after all was to promote pleasure craft safety and seaworthiness. It would appear today that ABYC’s main focus is PROFIT!


If ABYC had its way Mr. Moyer would not be able or qualified to step aboard a customer’s boat to change the oil without being certified by them. If insurance carriers required ABYC compliance our boats would be non-insurable.

A legitimate Marine Insurance Co. will not exclude coverage under an all risk yacht policy because the owner or a repairer screwed up and caused a loss. Owner stupidity in some way, shape or form comes into play on most claims with the exception of acts of God. Now if as a condition of coverage the carrier mandated replacement of that worn hose the surveyor noted and it directly let to a subsequent loss, your coverage is voided.

Where do you guys find surveyors that require gas tight motor boxes and do not know what a CNG system is…Craigslist?