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View Poll Results: Where do you get your info on shore power installations? | |||
Nigel Calder or similar text | 20 | 66.67% | |
West Marine Advisor | 3 | 10.00% | |
Licensed Electrician | 8 | 26.67% | |
Slip neighbor/ dock expert | 1 | 3.33% | |
Internet article | 9 | 30.00% | |
Forum discussion | 9 | 30.00% | |
The guy in the orange apron | 2 | 6.67% | |
Wife's uncle | 2 | 6.67% | |
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 30. You may not vote on this poll |
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#1
IP: 24.152.132.65
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Where do you get advice on shore power systems?
It's fair to say we on this forum make our repairs and installations ourselves. When it comes to shore power, something that if not done right could kill you and yours, where do you get your information? Multiple votes enabled.
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Neil 1977 Catalina 30 San Pedro, California prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22 Had my hands in a few others Last edited by ndutton; 07-22-2015 at 09:00 PM. |
#2
IP: 24.138.22.213
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We didn't put power on the docks of our marina. A number of people have fridges but run a combination of solar and wind. Club has an ice maker and a volunteer (George) ensures the ice fridge is topped up with ice every couple of days. Typically, people get down to their boats on the weekend and only about 10 of us are there on what I'd call a daily basis. Cost of ice is $2 a bag and it's a good size...two bags keeps my stuff cool for a weekend and lots of ice for drinks. I run with 2 deep cycle batteries these days, 100 amp alternator, no solar, no wind generator ... but keep in mind I'm generally a day sailor, then bring it alongside somewhere for a few wobbly-pops or drinks. All my lights are LED as well. Autopilot is my biggest user and the batteries last a long long time. Just coming into the dock throws a charge back into them.
It would cost the club about $200,000 to put power to the docks. That cost would only be added to marina rates. Members had a vote and decided against it. There's also the added factor of electrolisis that we don't have to deal with. I actually took the shore power out of the boat. We have a few marine electricians at the club. Allot of the guys are ex Navy and a couple work at SeaMasters (the local yacht repair facility)...I can have electrical work done, radar fixed, plumbing etc for nothing...just get the guy what he wants to do the job. Funny that I was a medic and am one of the go to mechanics...we have a couple of marine engineers as well. I did tick off a licenced electrician because we have few there. Rob has been after me to put in my new gauge set...but alas, tomorrow, like most days, I'll go down and take off for a sail. Funny how that works. I have some stainless steel outer cabin rails sitting in my garage as well. One of the hull techs offered to put them on for me. When I go to the club there's generally a plan: -I'm the marina manager (Volunteer position)...so there's always something up there. Someone wants to move, something broken, ordering supplies etc. -Someone might want help with an engine. -Get off the dock for a sail.
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Mo "Odyssey" 1976 C&C 30 MKI The pessimist complains about the wind. The optimist expects it to change. The realist adjusts the sails. ...Sir William Arthur Ward. Last edited by Mo; 07-22-2015 at 09:55 PM. |
#3
IP: 107.0.6.242
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Shore power makes me nervous. Whenever I leave the boat at the dock I shut down everything except the battery charger. Unless I'm actually living aboard I shut down the fridge too.
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#4
IP: 24.152.132.65
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The inspiration was a thread on another forum discussing GFCI's and ELCI's. One participant knew his stuff but he was drowned out by the internet mavens and dock experts spewing half-truths and other flavors of misinformation. No kidding, someone could get injured or worse.
For those who voted 'Forum discussion' in the poll, take note. Here's a quick test of the quality of your information source: What does the green (ground) wire do in a GFCI protected circuit? Hint: it's the same as the answer to a lyrical question in an Edwin Starr hit.
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Neil 1977 Catalina 30 San Pedro, California prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22 Had my hands in a few others Last edited by ndutton; 07-23-2015 at 09:52 AM. |
#5
IP: 108.90.160.12
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I could not choose one. I try to never connect shore power. I put a new outlet on and checked things over but no upgrading here. I actually removed a few outlets the PO had installed in a substandard way. I only use shore power if I want to use my heat gun or run the portable AC unit (not since last summer), otherwise it is solar for me. Most everything on the boat is 12volt.
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Gary 78' Catalina 30 #1179 www.svknotaclew.wordpress.com |
#6
IP: 72.45.14.161
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I did marine electrical/electronic for a living back in the day. We liked keeping the Nigel Calder books around and had ABYC publications as well.
Lesson 1 with Shore Power - HIDE THE CORD WHEN DOING WORK I had both arms elbow deep in a panel and suddenly I am jumping around like a frog with 120 volts applied. After getting loose from the panel and yelling ***?!? I ran up on deck to find the dock attendant had "helped out" by plugging the boat back in Last edited by joe_db; 07-23-2015 at 06:45 AM. |
#7
IP: 207.255.182.91
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After moving up from my Catalina 25 to a Tartan 30, I found myself in the "sweet spot" of conflicting power needs. The C25 didn't need and really didn't have room for a retrofit AC distribution system. I did keep a GFCI protected extension cord with a twist-lock connector on the boat for running tools and such, but that was it. The T30 came with a simple 12v DC system, but the heat of summer here on the Chesapeake made the idea of a water-source marine air conditioning unit quite appealing. Having a battery charger and outlets also sounded quite useful. I did a lot of reading from Don Casey and Calder, read everything Blue Sea put out on ELCIs and asked questions on forums and of other knowledgeable people. I received some well-reasoned advice and sometimes conflicting, but well-intentioned advice from forum participants, regarding my ELCI installation. Bottom line, electricity around the water can be very dangerous. So can alcohol. Or gasoline. I still fire up my A-4 recognizing safety precautions and I still drink margaritas at the dock. I also safely plug in my blender in my air conditioned saloon to enjoy our passion for time on the water.
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Tom "Patina" 1977 Tartan 30 Repowered with MMI A-4 2008 |
#8
IP: 71.118.13.238
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No worries
I have no worries regarding shore power as I do not have any.
Dave Neptune |
#9
IP: 161.213.49.150
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Quote:
I worry more about my neighbor's shore power. TRUE GRIT |
#10
IP: 216.115.121.240
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I did vote For Nigel Calder's book even though I don't have shore power.
That's my go-to until someone discredits him. If and when I get power, that's most likely my first reference. I guess a lot of us just drink warm beer Niel. Just a note: The Homer harbor installed new hookups for the big boats a while back but they still won't hold tug boat from leaving the docks. They just sort of part like a wet noodle if you don't unplug. Seen it.
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Whiskeyjack a '68 Columbia 36 rebuilt A-4 with 2:1 "Since when is napping doing nothing?" |
#11
IP: 67.232.91.39
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Just a note: The Homer harbor installed new hookups for the big boats a while back but they still won't hold tug boat from leaving the docks. They just sort of part like a wet noodle if you don't unplug. Seen it.[/QUOTE]
Yep. Standing joke at Matthews Point "Don't forget the yellow dock line". On a more serious note it's the ones that unplug from the boat but leave the cord plugged in to the power pedestal that get me. One of the very few things that I will comment/confront someone on regardless of who it is. The MC does have an AC system. Old but accessible. Several years ago after reading and rereading the advice from Calder, Casey, other online info and wrapping my mind around the grounding issue I worked thru the system and made some changes. I have done a bit of wiring, including my entire house. BUT marine/boat wiring is a different beast. So prier "land experience" is no guarantee. This thread like many here has caused me to say. " I better check again and see exactly what I have". Dan S/V Marian Claire |
The Following User Says Thank You to Marian Claire For This Useful Post: | ||
Administrator (07-24-2015) |
#12
IP: 108.202.192.47
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Ac
We do not have shore power with our current boat. As a matter of fact, we opted for the no electricity or water side of the docks. Our slip mate says we are the friendly side of the harbor - we have to be - we only have one picnic table.
I do keep Calder's book handy. Howard
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S/V Swimmer Bristol 27 |
#13
IP: 70.208.128.189
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No shore power used unless absolutely necessary to accomplish a task.
And that's only when it takes 15 amps plus for a long period. We don't leave our boat plugged into the dock. Solar is what we have found to be the best, reliable and safe when installed correctly.
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Paul S/V PT26 1971 Grampian G26 W/A4 "The Devil never comes to you with a pitchfork and a ball of fire" |
#14
IP: 67.237.230.85
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I've wired several houses and farm buildings to code, and am pretty comfortable with electricity, but I still like to check with the reference books. The wiring on my boat when I took possession was in a downright lethal state. I maybe could have had the PO charged with attempted murder for selling it to me like that :roll eyes:
I can't help but suspect that a lot of older boats are in the same state. Up until last year, our (fresh water) marina was filled with the sounds of happy kids diving off the docks and splashing around. Lots of people had installed swim ladders on their dock. Then I asked the guy with four kids in the next slip if he'd ever heard of "electric shock drowning." Now there are big "no swimming" signs stenciled on every dock, and I think those kids hate me. Confession: I had planned to do all the 12V runs with red/yellow safety cable, so that any black wires would unambiguously be 120V. But I couldn't get safety cable here in BFE when I needed it, so about half of it is still red/black. (The PO used red/yellow safety cable to string together a bunch of unprotected 120V outlets !!) |
#15
IP: 206.125.176.3
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I have gone back and forth with installing shore power. My boat does not have any, and like Paul, I use solar to keep the batteries topped up, and so far have managed to not run them down (yet. )
I have access to 30 amps at the dock where I keep my boat, but not for permanent use (long run, no way for me to meter my own use.) - That works great for power tools and stuff. For now, I have a 30 amp extension cord and a six outlet strip that I pull out of the locker if my wife wants to blow dry her hair when we are off at some marina, or in extreme conditions if I bring a box fan for the forward hatch. I have Nigel's book, and Casey's book. I've found both to be great resources. Sometimes internet forums are helpful, but you have to be vigilant. I never trust anyone's advice I cannot corroborate with another source. 120v on boats scares me. When you keep your boat in marina and have to hang one of those zinc fish off your transom, like my buddy, there are some issues that need to be dealt with. I dunno if it is all worth it.
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-Shawn "Holiday" - '89 Alura 35 #109 "Twice Around" - '77 C-30, #511 with original A-4 & MMI manifold - SOLD! (no longer a two boat owner!!) Last edited by sastanley; 07-28-2015 at 08:44 AM. |
#16
IP: 107.0.6.242
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Shawn - It's even worse than that. You can be affected by someone else's hookup if stray currents are being released into the water. If you have a lot of boats on power where you dock, go fishing yourself off the transom and see if he disappears.
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#17
IP: 206.125.176.3
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Yeah, Hanley, that is exactly what I mean...all the other boats!! You've seen the dock where I am..the owner keeps his boat plugged in, but no one else does. I haven't done any 'checking' for stray current, but I also don't swim there either.
Right now there is an extension cord draped down the dock to one of the other boats. This guy never uses it, so I suspect the bilge pump ran the batteries down and he's got a battery charger down there, unattended. My buddy is at a marina with ~75% of the boats plugged in 24/7.
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-Shawn "Holiday" - '89 Alura 35 #109 "Twice Around" - '77 C-30, #511 with original A-4 & MMI manifold - SOLD! (no longer a two boat owner!!) |
#18
IP: 24.152.132.65
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The reason I started this poll last year was seeing repeated advice on forums that was questionable if not downright disingenuous. The responses here were excellent, no surprise.
Some of the trusted internet sources are often self-serving in promoting their own business, ego or both. Anyone advises you to drop several thou$ands on gear to charge a battery deserves careful scrutiny. Usually the hook is threat of fire, shock or death and if you don't agree with them you're either ignorant or foolish. Be vigilant my friends.
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Neil 1977 Catalina 30 San Pedro, California prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22 Had my hands in a few others |
#19
IP: 107.0.6.242
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When at home in Edgartown my boat is on a mooring so I don't worry about shore power. Even when traveling and staying on a transient dock I only give shore power cursory inspection because I know I will be on the boat overnight and able to react quickly. The real danger arises when you stay on a dock for weeks and months as I do in Florida. In that case I make it a priority to be my brother's keeper and I routinely walk the dock and inspect each boat's hook up - tactfully, of course if the owner is present. I look for things like cords hanging in the water . I also look for strange/cobbled adapters or burned looking plugs and receptacles. I like to make sure there is sufficient slack on each boat to handle the tide and normal roll where applicable. I used to be dock master at Edgartown Marine so I am quite anal about this. Show me a boat not made up well to the dock and I'll show you a boat that needs an electrical inspection. Don't be shy about going to the office and getting right in the dock master's face.
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#20
IP: 73.255.216.151
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My boat was wired with 6 110 outlets when I got it. They are on two GFCI circuits. I know that the PO had a marine electric guy do the job. (in Annapolis)
SO far, I am still alive and have not had any problems. I have done some ac electrical work such as replacing meter panels, adding outlets and other circuits on terrestrial dwellings. I feel that I know enough to know that I need to ask when I have any doubts. I always consult several sources for an answer to a problem. (Electrical or not) I tell every one this is the best method, especially on marine issues!! Electrics seems to scare and confuse mechanics and do it yourself types. I have never understood this. It is just straight forward to me. (even those loose ground problems) I guess we start learning about mechanical things in the crib, where electrical stuff comes much later. Or maybe it is that we cant see those electrons moving. |
#21
IP: 75.62.246.63
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I generally don't leave my boat plugged into the dock unless its cold and I want to run the heater or I need to watch movies or tv on the boat. My harbor is very hot and I change zincs every year. I've gotten pretty good at changing them under water. I know nothing about shore power other than I plug it in when I need it and generally keep it unplugged. I have an old gritty stiff cord laying on the dock when I need it and and a nice shiny flexible new one I pull out of the boat when I travel to other areas. That's it that's all I know on the subject. I do notice that my prop tends to get some hard scaly stuff on it that I have to sand off, when I leave the boat plugged in for long periods of time. Not really sure if this is caused by electrolysis or not. I leave the shore power generally unplugged or this reason. DVD
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