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  #51   IP: 75.157.247.99
Old 11-13-2011, 11:14 AM
Marty Levenson Marty Levenson is offline
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oil pan install

Is there a torque setting for the oil pan screws, or is it just good and tight?

I have new grade 5 black metal hex bolts with new lock washers - good enough?


Thanks!
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Old 11-14-2011, 02:16 AM
Marty Levenson Marty Levenson is offline
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Trouble in paradise

Cleaning up the newly painted pan, threading screws in all the holes to make sure they are clear. On the face of the pan that screws into the coupler (naming screw holes as though the pan were right side up) the 3 holes at approx 3, 6 and 9 are fine, but the 2 holes at 5 and 7 o'clock won't accept a bolt. The odd thing is that there were bolts there that I removed to drop the pan, and nothing was done to the pan except "hot tanking". They were masked and never painted. Did a bit of scraping and sanding on that face to remove the worst of the gasket before tanking, but I'm pretty careful.

I don't understand what happened, and am not sure what to do next. Perhaps there was a problem that I didn't notice as I removed the bolts. I was told by the previous owner that the pan leaked oil at that end. The bottom screw was missing, and the gasket was folded. Initially i though that screw hole had a broken bolt in it, and was relieved to see it was a gasket problem. Maybe that's all relevant, but maybe not.

Its late, but I briefly tried a tap to see if that might clear a freaky thread, but it wouldn't start easily in either hole. As these two holes go right through to the interior of the pan, I tried threading in a bolt from the inside. Same result. Is it possible they are a different thread or size than the other three?

I have almost no experience drilling and tapping. If I can't find a thread size to fit, should I fill the hole with JB weld, re-drill and re-tap? Drill a larger hole and tap that (would need to make the hole in the back plates larger too. Or?

Any advice or suggestions much appreciated!

Thanks,
Marty
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Old 11-14-2011, 06:42 AM
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I tightened my oil pan bolts "Good and tight."

Those are mystery holes. The flange gasket will seal it. Use Permatek Aviation to seal both sides of that gasket and the lower 3 bolts. Use brass washers on at least the lower 3 bolts.
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Old 11-14-2011, 08:29 AM
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Old 11-14-2011, 08:32 AM
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Those holes don't get bolts. They might be oil return holes?
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Old 11-14-2011, 10:34 AM
Marty Levenson Marty Levenson is offline
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gotta solve it

Thanks for the thoughts....and the "just good and tight" info.

For sure they aren't oil return holes: I had new bolts hand tight in them as I was planning everything before taking the pan off. Those are two of the bottom three holes! The two new gaskets have holes there, and I understand this is a leak-prone spot (hence the brass washers).

All I can think is that I or the hot tanking damaged the outer threads somehow? But it seems odd that I can't thread from the inside either.

Thanks!
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Old 11-14-2011, 10:58 AM
Marty Levenson Marty Levenson is offline
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False alarm

I feel foolish.

The engine is on a stand, and I put the pan on just now (no gasket) to see if that might help me figure this out, or at least align the bolts perfectly 90 degrees. Well, Jim was correct in a way I initially didn't understand: those are "mystery holes". The other three holes (with good threads) are the ones that are the bottom three: the two "problem holes" don't go anywhere!

Many thanks for bearing with my confused post.

-Marty
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Old 11-21-2011, 02:16 AM
Marty Levenson Marty Levenson is offline
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pipe tape etc

When I put the oil sensor brass pipes back in the block, should I use teflon tape or what?

When I install exhaust manifold pipes, same question!

Many thanks,
Marty
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Old 11-21-2011, 08:46 AM
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Smile

Generally, pipe threads do not need teflon and the thread itself is designed to bind and seal. I have seen it written on here not to use teflon on the oil sending unit as the possibility exists to get debris interfering with it's operation.

FWIW I rebuilt my hot exhaust Sept 2010 and used the pipe thread paste on it. It did leak initially as I had not tightened it enough. The trick to that was that it had to be tight...took a few minutes to rectify. Have to take into account that it will be hot also, so it just may burn away.
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Old 11-21-2011, 08:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marty Levenson View Post
I didn't know it was pinned!
There are two pins, for alignment. Shown below by the badly-drawn blue arrows (the engine is upside-down):







The pins can easily be driven out with a punch and a small hammer. Just tap, tap, tap them out. I found it easier to put the gasket and pan back on with the engine upside-down. That way, you put the pins in, which help align the gaskets, and you can just lay the gaskets down along the mating surface. Then it's easy to lay the pan down, using the aligning pins. Plus most of the screws come in from the bottom anyhow, so this makes it easier to get at them and tighten them down.
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Old 11-21-2011, 09:04 AM
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I recommend steel or stainless steel rather than brass for the oil sender pipe. The combination of pipe length, oil sender weight and engine vibration applies considerable force at the engine block end. Brass is awfully soft for this application. A break can destroy your engine before you realize there's a problem.

I had three senders on mine so for the same reason I didn't even trust steel. I relocated my sender array to a bulkhead and connected it with a pressure rated flexible hose.
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Old 11-21-2011, 09:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maurice View Post
Generally, pipe threads do not need teflon and the thread itself is designed to bind and seal. I have seen it written on here not to use teflon on the oil sending unit as the possibility exists to get debris interfering with it's operation...
I have had good luck using the pink teflon tape. It's rated for petrolium proudcts, and is used on natural gas and propane lines. It does not appear to soften or dissolve when exposed to engine oil.

That having been said, it's still not a good idea to use any tape on a 1-terminal oil sending unit (or any 1-terminal sensor for that matter) because they depend on getting a good ground to the engine block through the threads in order to complete the return circuit. Usually the threads will cut thru the tape and ground anyway, but you can't count on it.
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Old 11-23-2011, 01:47 PM
Marty Levenson Marty Levenson is offline
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sender mounting

Thanks: never would have thought about the conductivity issue. I bought the oil filter kit from Indigo, and that's another reason to put that sensor on the oil filter (with ground to block).

-Marty
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Old 11-23-2011, 01:49 PM
Marty Levenson Marty Levenson is offline
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pan pins

"There are two pins, for alignment. Shown below by the badly-drawn blue arrows (the engine is upside-down)"

Thanks - I did figure it out. The pan is back on, all painted.

Marty
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Old 11-23-2011, 01:55 PM
Marty Levenson Marty Levenson is offline
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Head stud problem or not?

Recap: my engine was rebuilt in 2008 - including new Moyer head - by PO, run for just a few hours, and then stored until now. I am partly disassembling, cleaning, tweaking, and painting with engine on a stand.

My alt bracket only seems to have one stud and nut. The second stud is short, with no nut (please see photo below).

Is that a problem?

Worried,
Marty
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Old 11-23-2011, 04:06 PM
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Exclamation

That is a monster problem. Those two studs have to be longer than the regular head studs to accomodate the bracket. Ken should be able to set you up with the right studs.
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Old 11-23-2011, 04:22 PM
Marty Levenson Marty Levenson is offline
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problem

so....head has to come off for sure? No other option?
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Old 11-25-2011, 01:42 AM
Marty Levenson Marty Levenson is offline
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Question head gasket + studs

Head came off easily. Studs are still in the block. Valves look great.

I bought an inexpensive stud remover today and plan to remove the two that should extend through the lifting eye. Does anyone know how long those two replacement studs should be? Also, the manual describes cleaning them up and reinstalling them. Is it prudent to remove and reinstall all, remove and replace all, or simple replace the two that need to be longer?

I'm confused about the head gasket. The manual specifies two, and they are sold in pairs....but it seemed like there was only one.

Happy Thanksgiving!

-Marty
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Old 11-25-2011, 08:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marty Levenson View Post
I bought an inexpensive stud remover today
Be careful there, if you plan to re-use the studs. If the stud remover you bought is this type:



You can easily (and likely will) destroy the threads on the stud. If you have the head off, you can slide this remover farther down the stud, onto the non-threaded portion. Even there, you can bend the stud because you're applying torque parallel to, not along, the centerline of the stud. If a stud is corroded, it is possible to snap it off.

Feel free to ask me how I know this.

In fact, if you've got the head off, you can grip the middle, non-threaded portion of the stud with vise-grips or channel-locks and unscrew them that way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marty Levenson View Post
Also, the manual describes cleaning them up and reinstalling them. Is it prudent to remove and reinstall all, remove and replace all, or simple replace the two that need to be longer?
I would say it depends on the condition of yours. As the bottom end protrudes into the cooling jacket, they can corrode and lose a bit of length and some threads.

A few of mine were kind of corroded, one so badly it snapped off (see above), so I just went ahead and bought all new ones from Moyer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marty Levenson View Post
I'm confused about the head gasket. The manual specifies two, and they are sold in pairs....but it seemed like there was only one.
Yes, if you go with the modern graphite set sold by Moyer, there are two.
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Old 11-25-2011, 02:22 PM
Marty Levenson Marty Levenson is offline
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studs

Thanks Rust - that's most useful.

The stud remover I bought from NAPA was similar to the Snap-on one that Moyer sells....but about a quarter the cost. I'll let you know how it works.

-Marty
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Old 11-25-2011, 02:24 PM
Marty Levenson Marty Levenson is offline
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painting alternator?

I see some alternators painted and some bare. I'm undercoating everything else with zinc chromate, so I gather I can prime the aluminum alt with that and expect it to last a few years.

Any pros or cons to painting the alt?

Thanks,
Marty
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Old 11-25-2011, 02:32 PM
Marty Levenson Marty Levenson is offline
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stud length

can anyone please tell me how long the studs should be

1. that go though the lifting eye?
2. that hold the thermostat housing?
3. the other 13?

I may have a local source that will be way faster than from Moyer's site (much as I prefer to buy from him when time isn't an issue!)

Thanks!
-Marty
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Old 12-07-2011, 02:34 AM
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gloating with fingers crossed

Well, getting near the end of painting. Volvo gray and Cat yellow. Should have the new head gaskets and studs before the weekend, and will assemble then. Starter, carb, flywheel housing and cover ready to install.

The end of Phase 1 will be testing. Phase 2 is getting the old A4 out of the boat. Phase 3 is cleaning up the disasterous engine room. Phase 4 is rewiring. Phase 5 is install rebuilt A4! Next winter there may be a Phase 6: rebuilding old A4.

Did a partial "dry assembly" of most parts today....an excuse to gloat. Photos below. Every time I go into the garage for anything I end up staying there at least 45 minutes tinkering.

Thanks for all the help so far: lots more questions to follow, no doubt!

-Marty
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Old 12-07-2011, 08:08 AM
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Wow, Marty! She looks FANTASTIC! Nice work.
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Old 12-07-2011, 08:39 AM
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Thumbs up

I am totally digging that paint scheme! Looks very utilitarian and purposeful.

SCHWEET!!
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Old 12-07-2011, 08:44 AM
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I like the color scheme, it looks great!
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