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Old 05-14-2018, 05:47 PM
SoMD Terp SoMD Terp is offline
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Suspected Exhaust Leak

At the end of the 2016 season i noticed the cabin was filling with smoke while I was motoring to a marina to get bottom painted. I figured that it was due to the growth on the hull and prop adding load to the engine. When it was completed and I tweaked the idle setting, the smoke stopped. I didn’t use the boat much last year, but it smoked again by the end of the season and again this year. I had the bottom cleaned, but still smoke. After looking at the engine I determined that the smoke was coming from the exhaust tube from the engine to the muffler. The smoke is white and it lingers with a gas like smell. My thought is to replace the exhaust tube. I have attached a picture for reference.

Any troubleshooting thoughts? Also, where is the best place to buy the tube? Mine looks different than other options I have seen (1979 Catalina 30). Thanks!
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Old 05-14-2018, 08:09 PM
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exhaust

Dont think you will know source of leak until you remove the heat shield wrapping - (then re-post picture for us). Generally hot section can be rebuilt from standard plumbing black pipe
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Old 05-15-2018, 12:20 AM
Hawkeye54 Hawkeye54 is offline
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I agree with what Whippet says, SoMD, and a close look at the photo seems to indicate a loose / broken hose clamp and a possible crack just above the "Out" label that I see in the lower part of the picture. ( long distance troubleshooting )





Rick
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Old 05-15-2018, 11:03 AM
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I would also unwrap it and check the pipe. I have gone to work on mine and it collapsed from hand pressure. Rust Never Sleeps
Hint - drop some MMO in the carb. The engine will smoke - a lot! You can see where it leaks that way

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Old 05-17-2018, 08:37 PM
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SoMD, Down here where we live it is always an adventure. I would suggest Dyson's or Ace Hardware. Most exhausts between the engine and muffler is 1-1/4" black iron pipe. It looks like you have a Moyer standard flange, which bolts to the manifold and has 1-1/4" NPT threads. As others suggested, remove the wrap and see. Moyer sells the wrap too, but you can also get it local at NAPA up next to the bowling alley.
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Old 05-24-2018, 10:07 PM
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Unhappy similar thing going on- exhaust leak

Yep it sounds like my hot exhaust pipe is going the same way as Terps. I noticed exhaust smell in the cabin last time I motored and today I noticed a different sound in the lazerette where the exhaust piping is. Like a tiny hole in an exhaust pipe. Sounds a little like a rattling diesel! And smelly cabin again.

You'd thing these things would last longer than 40 years! hahaha.

My trepidation stems from knowing there are bronze age rusted bolts and pipes down there, etc. and what? having to hang upside down to get to it? Pull the engine? Cut a hole in the hull?

Any words of encouragement are appreciated.
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Old 05-25-2018, 06:25 AM
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Bill,

I cut mine apart with a hack saw in a couple of strategic places to get it out - based on reading this forum. Took maybe five minutes to get it out.

KEEP THE PIECES and take them to the plumbing supply store with you to get the black iron pipe - not galvanized as it has a zinc coating which will produce toxic fumes when heated.

Consider adding a union(s) in the new section to make installation easier.

Do not buy cheap exhaust wrap on ebay - I did this and it produced a horrible smell that simply did not diminish with time so I replaced that too.

Hope that helps,

Peter
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Old 05-25-2018, 09:32 AM
Dave Neptune Dave Neptune is offline
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Bill, removal can be a bit rough so use a saws all and remove in chunks. It is quite easy to cobble a new one once the old one is removed.
Look at the space real good there may be a far better routing path.
You have control of where the "hi spot is" and where the water is "injected" into the exhaust.
I rerouted mine in my ole E-35 so I could mount a bypass oil filter in the box, really came out nice and far better than the factory set up.

Dave Neptune
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Old 05-25-2018, 09:51 AM
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Thanks guys. I need all the encouragement I can get. hmmmm I like "saws all."

I am sooo lazy I don't want to do anything- just sail. Or even patch it with some hi temp stuff to give me more time.

I guess first thing is to remove the wrap and see what I've got. Maybe I can stick my phone down there and get some pics.
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Old 05-25-2018, 10:40 AM
Dave Neptune Dave Neptune is offline
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Bill, an exhaust leak into the cabin is not something to put off. The ramifications of CO poisoning are just to great!

When you remove the wrap you will most likely uncover the leak and make it much worse.

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Old 05-26-2018, 08:48 AM
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Thank you for the suggestions.
You know in a modern world where we don't even know our neighbor it is touching and refreshing to have someone concerned about me getting poisoned with CO gas. Point well taken. Thank you Dave. Wutta forum and bunch of fellow sailors we have here.
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Last edited by alcodiesel; 05-26-2018 at 09:07 AM.
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Old 05-26-2018, 09:07 AM
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pics exhaust leak

I hope Terp doesn't mind me hijacking his thread. It's the same issue as far as I see.
Behold the leak is where the wrap is blackened. I found it most interesting that there was wetness at the top of the 1st pic where the pipe joins the water lift thingy.

This whole thing is ready to fall apart. I had my suspicions.

The 2nd pic is the whole thing (I couldn't get the dn load right side up). What do I replace it with?

PS- I'm looking at saws alls, ooo boy!
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Old 05-27-2018, 09:26 AM
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New water lift suggestions?

So I am looking for a similar set up the the original set up- long vertical cylinder, exhaust in the bottom and out the top. It's a standpipe? Doesn't take up much space. It has worked fine for 40 years- why change? Because there is nothing like it nowadays. The Moyers one for Tartans- is that workable? I don't really want to spend that kind of money.

Should I change it to one of these new fangled fiberglass canister things, like a Vernalift? Yet I read standpipes are a better system.

The subject of exhaust systems has more varied opinions than perhaps anything I have ever seen with relation to these old sailboats.

I will appreciate any experience about what to replace this thing with.
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Last edited by alcodiesel; 05-27-2018 at 09:35 AM.
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Old 05-27-2018, 09:43 AM
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I'm having difficulty visualizing your entire system from partial pictures. Before you start buying stuff you need to determine what type of exhaust system you have. Is it really a waterlift or is it a standpipe? The two achieve the same goal but are very different and the components are not interchangeable without a full system redesign. As far as we know right now you may even have a straight pipe system with a silencer, also different from the other two.

If better pictures are not possible, perhaps a detailed drawing?

Please study the drawings attached to this post and report back if either of them reflect your system. Look particularly at relative elevations, water injection points and hose gradients to the transom (the standpipe runs downhill, the waterlift usually has a hump).

edit: you my find this YouTube video helpful. It's of the same boat as yours and follows good marine exhaust principles pretty well. Do not be tempted to use galvanized pipe however.
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Last edited by ndutton; 05-27-2018 at 09:53 AM.
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Old 05-27-2018, 10:33 AM
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Thank you. Any reason to go play with the boat. Will report later.
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Old 05-27-2018, 01:58 PM
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If you need a stand pipe, I've got one that can be yours for the price of shipping or a road trip to Crown Point Marina in Gloucester. It came with a used A4 that I bought 14 years ago, my boat has a water lift and I can't use the stanpipe.
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Old 05-27-2018, 02:32 PM
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Thank you Tim. What is it make of, copper?
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Old 05-27-2018, 05:56 PM
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Yes, it is copper. I hooked it up to an A4 rebuild a couple years ago and it seemed to work with no leaks.
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Old 05-27-2018, 07:45 PM
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stand pipe, water lift, riser

Hi Neil, it most closely resembles the standpipe drawing. The exhaust hose runs down hill all the way.
Sorry the pics are so huge. If I made 'em smaller they were inverted no matter what.

What do you think?
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File Type: pdf riser drawing.pdf (13.0 KB, 15 views)
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Old 05-27-2018, 08:08 PM
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Yep, standpipe. No question.
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Old 05-27-2018, 08:38 PM
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Thanks Neil. Now where does one get one of these?
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Old 05-27-2018, 08:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alcodiesel View Post
Thanks Neil. Now where does one get one of these?
You have a couple of choices, both a result of your activity on this forum. Tim has one he has offered you for the cost of shipping and Moyer Marine sells brand new stainless standpipes in their online catalog. Do not be concerned if the water injection point is in a different location. Yours looks unusual to me.
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Old 05-28-2018, 09:04 AM
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Tim, I'm up for a little road trip. Thank you for offering your standpipe. I am free most any time. Let me know where and when.
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Old 05-28-2018, 10:04 AM
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I suggest a pressure test before installation. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with Tim's standpipe, just that it's better to know for sure before installation. I've bought and sold a couple of used heat exchangers and each one of them was pressure tested prior to installation.
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Old 05-28-2018, 10:20 AM
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Are these pictures upside down?

I know not all standpipes look alike, but having the water injection at the bottom and exhaust leaving the standpipe at the top seems backwards.
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