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View Poll Results: What kind of motor oil do you use?
30W 104 50.98%
10W-30 59 28.92%
10W-40 30 14.71%
Detergent 47 23.04%
Non-Detergent 4 1.96%
Natural (as opposed to synthetic) 48 23.53%
Synthetic 9 4.41%
Motorcycle Oil 4 1.96%
SG Grade 6 2.94%
Some Other Variation 12 5.88%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 204. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-14-2016, 01:48 PM
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We have had other members report that oil pressure increases with time and temp increase after start up. I have tried to make sense of this because it is counter intuitive to my understanding and experience that viscosity decreases with temp and hence pressure should also decrease. One factor that keeps coming to mind is the nature of the oil pump intake. The "bottleneck" is the 1/8" NPT 90 degree street ell coming right off the oil pump. Since that fitting is a casting, it's cross sectional area is subject to the irregularities of the casting process. Even a small burr in the oil stream could have an influence on flow especially at cold temperatures. Because of the foregoing "theory" I have modified my oil pump to use a 1/4" NPT fitting. The difference in oil flow was impressive and could account for the big pressure differential I live with between start up and cruise. I live with it and enjoy the (relatively) massive flow and pressure increases as well.

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Old 02-14-2016, 01:49 PM
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What's with all the dotted lines in the posts lately?
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Old 02-14-2016, 01:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbsoukup View Post
so are you guys seeing higher pressure at start up and then a decrease after the engine warms up?
Another yes.
This is why it is recommended that oil pressure be adjusted when the engine is fully warmed up at cruise RPM.

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Old 02-14-2016, 02:22 PM
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I could have sworn I saw higher pressure with lower viscosity oil and it seemed counterintuitive to me also.
I assumed lower viscosity = lower pressure = higher flow rate but my observation (as I remember it) was opposite, pressure wise.
I don't really worry about it as I never see pressure drop below 20 or so at any time.
not sure how we could measure flow rate anyway
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Old 02-14-2016, 02:25 PM
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Mo, same with me. I try to be in around April 15, and water temps are high 30s to low 40s. Got a big fur hat and an Irish wool sweater for those days.
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Old 02-14-2016, 07:38 PM
JOHN COOKSON JOHN COOKSON is offline
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I Assume You Have An Electric Gauge?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbsoukup View Post
I could have sworn I saw higher pressure with lower viscosity oil and it seemed counterintuitive to me also.
I assumed lower viscosity = lower pressure = higher flow rate but my observation (as I remember it) was opposite, pressure wise.
Try a new sending unit. Or something. With this weird stuff going on how can you be sure what your OP really is?

TRUE GRIT
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Old 02-15-2016, 08:47 AM
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I see them in IE but not in Firefox.

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What's with all the dotted lines in the posts lately?
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Old 02-15-2016, 08:50 AM
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My current engine starts out high - 60 PSI - and then quickly falls to 40 as it warms up.
My last engine started out at 20 and slowly built up to 40 over 20 minutes or so.

My only thought is restrictions of some kind or a bad pump = thick oil not being pumped very well. Lack of restrictions equals the usual cold oil is thicker which gives higher pressure.

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Originally Posted by hanleyclifford View Post
We have had other members report that oil pressure increases with time and temp increase after start up. I have tried to make sense of this because it is counter intuitive to my understanding and experience that viscosity decreases with temp and hence pressure should also decrease. One factor that keeps coming to mind is the nature of the oil pump intake. The "bottleneck" is the 1/8" NPT 90 degree street ell coming right off the oil pump. Since that fitting is a casting, it's cross sectional area is subject to the irregularities of the casting process. Even a small burr in the oil stream could have an influence on flow especially at cold temperatures. Because of the foregoing "theory" I have modified my oil pump to use a 1/4" NPT fitting. The difference in oil flow was impressive and could account for the big pressure differential I live with between start up and cruise. I live with it and enjoy the (relatively) massive flow and pressure increases as well.
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Old 02-15-2016, 09:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joe_db View Post
My current engine starts out high - 60 PSI - and then quickly falls to 40 as it warms up.
My last engine started out at 20 and slowly built up to 40 over 20 minutes or so.

My only thought is restrictions of some kind or a bad pump = thick oil not being pumped very well. Lack of restrictions equals the usual cold oil is thicker which gives higher pressure.
Next time you have your oil pan down have a look and a measure of that fitting. On my engine the ID of the ell was significantly smaller than the oil pump discharge channel. I posted the figures here a while back. I'll look for the post.
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Old 02-15-2016, 11:28 AM
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This thread has some useful info: http://www.moyermarine.com/forums/sh...=9581#post9581
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Old 02-15-2016, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by hanleyclifford View Post
What's with all the dotted lines in the posts lately?
They're ToolTips, another great feature our Admin has set up. Commonly used, but sometimes obscure, acronyms get underlined. Hover over them with the mouse pointer to see the the full text for things like UHS, IMHO, and IIRC.

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I see them in IE but not in Firefox.
Interesting. I see them fine in Firefox (on a Mac).
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Old 02-15-2016, 01:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joe_db View Post
My current engine starts out high - 60 PSI - and then quickly falls to 40 as it warms up.
My last engine started out at 20 and slowly built up to 40 over 20 minutes or so.

My only thought is restrictions of some kind or a bad pump = thick oil not being pumped very well. Lack of restrictions equals the usual cold oil is thicker which gives higher pressure.
Here are the measurements I made at the time I switched to 1/4" NPT ell for the oil pickup. The oil channel thru the bearing cap measures .285". The hole thru the strainer frame measures .266". But the 1/8" NPT street ell connecting the pump to the frame only has .187" ID! That was enough to sell me on making the change.
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Old 02-17-2016, 12:22 PM
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After my partial rebuild early spring 2015 & having done at least 6 serious lil system flushes, I adjusted the oil pressure bypass in because i was seeinf pressure holding at about 25 - 30 lbs. After the adjustment I saw 35-40 lbs. Then I drained my last clean oil , something cheap and common, 10-30 and filled her up with 15-40 Rotella. Did a few more odds and ends which allowed the engine to cool down and give her a start.
The start up pressure shocked me at 70lbs right off the bat. Then quickly drolped to 60. I thought I waz going tl need to adjust the.pressure down. However, after warming up the pressure dropped back to hold.between 30-40 under normal opperation .
Obviously 60-70 is way too much but Im now wondering if opperation 30 & 40 is ok.
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Old 02-17-2016, 02:35 PM
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Here is what Don M. recommends on page 5-4 & 5-5 of the Moyer Manuel.
Dress up the seat of the regulating valve every 5 years or more often if necessary. Did you dress the seat as part of the rebuild?
Then readjust the OP to ~ 50 PSI cold idle then (more importantly) 40 PSI with the engine warmed up at your cursing RPM.
And on page 5-4: "As long as the OP at idle is ~ 1/2 the OP at normal cruise all bearings as well as the oil pump are in reasonably good condition."
Hope this helps.

TRUE GRIT

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Old 02-17-2016, 03:48 PM
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I replaced all the engine wiring for the 2014 season so I know that is good.
I'm thinking the only way to be sure of correct oil pressure is to install a new gauge and matching sender.
Catalina Direct has a nice oil pressure gauge which matches the fuel gauge I installed last season, but the sender is metric thread.
Will any sender work?
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Old 02-17-2016, 04:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadaBing View Post
After my partial rebuild early spring 2015 & having done at least 6 serious lil system flushes, I adjusted the oil pressure bypass in because i was seeinf pressure holding at about 25 - 30 lbs. After the adjustment I saw 35-40 lbs. Then I drained my last clean oil , something cheap and common, 10-30 and filled her up with 15-40 Rotella. Did a few more odds and ends which allowed the engine to cool down and give her a start.
The start up pressure shocked me at 70lbs right off the bat. Then quickly drolped to 60. I thought I waz going tl need to adjust the.pressure down. However, after warming up the pressure dropped back to hold.between 30-40 under normal opperation .
Obviously 60-70 is way too much but Im now wondering if opperation 30 & 40 is ok.
Bill - That 15-40w Rotella is rugged stuff and may not be ideal for many members. Choice of oil has a lot to do with engine condition and how you use the boat/engine. I use the Rotella because my engine is worn and loosey-goosey and I run my engine all day at cruise often as many as 12 hours at a stretch. I need the Rotella to maintain 40 psi without having to crank in the relief valve. Weather is also a factor. If I have the engine running in winter I go to 30w or in the case of last winter as low as 5-30w. Next year I will have a different engine and will probably run straight 30w if the tolerances are anywhere near spec. Right now I'm running .016" crankshaft end play and rod side play .008", both way over spec - and the bearings are right at max spec except for the cam bearings. If my engine were human the diagnosis would be internal bleeding. Rotella keeps me stuffed and quiet.
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Old 02-17-2016, 05:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbsoukup View Post
I'm thinking the only way to be sure of correct oil pressure is to install a new gauge and matching sender.
Catalina Direct has a nice oil pressure gauge which matches the fuel gauge I installed last season, but the sender is metric thread.
Will any sender work?(Maybe)
John
You answered your own question. The sender and gauge must be matched (ie from the same manufacturer)for accurate readings.
That having been said some sending units and gauges are interchangeable because they have the same parameters. If you know the manufacturer of the sending unit and gauge you might be able to cross reference.

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Old 02-17-2016, 07:51 PM
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Not exactly.
If the sender and the gauge are both the same range and both the common 240-33 ohms, then they should work fine together. I went through 3 gauges on my old engine with the original sender and they all worked fine. Nothing wrong with getting all new though if you are not sure what you have. Remember 33 ohms is full scale, so if you have a 100 PSI sender and an 80 PSI gauge your readings will be off.

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John
You answered your own question. The sender and gauge must be matched (ie from the same manufacturer)for accurate readings.
That having been said some sending units and gauges are interchangeable because they have the same parameters. If you know the manufacturer of the sending unit and gauge you might be able to cross reference.

TRUE GRIT
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Old 02-18-2016, 07:18 PM
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Nothing wrong with using an electric gauge and sender but I would never rely on it alone. Keep a second, direct read gauge hooked up somewhere on the engine for comparison purposes.
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Old 04-07-2016, 11:47 PM
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A mechanical gauge can be mounted most anywhere. There are tubing kits 15 feet long available.

I hooked one up on my VW bus. It was on the dash. I bled the line and had oil right at the gauge. It was very sensitive, and would go up and down when I shifted.
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Old 05-15-2016, 08:43 AM
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I had a mechanical gauge on the panel for a while fed by a long plastic "kit" tube. The plastic hardened and deteriorated over time and broke off right at the ferrule. Lesson learned: use copper for the run to the gauge.
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Old 12-31-2018, 01:18 PM
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I have virgin early model A4 and have always had "mechanical" oil pressure gauge with connected copper tubing w/compression fittings. Gauge is on cockpit wall exposed to weather during the season. Am on my 3rd gauge in 42 years with same 3+ ft tubing [tee'd off to OPS]. Used Stewart- Warner gauges, sometimes a little hard to find "mechanical" type. FYI, engine is on slight aft tilt and have always used 4qt name brand 30W or 10-30W w/ 1 bottle of STP. Oil pressure is about 35psi at start up, 30+ psi at cruise and around 20psi at idle. Once in a great while I get a very small leak with this set up and a fitting needs a little tightening. I believe you get a accurate reading with the mechanical gauge vs electrical and matching the right sending unit.
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Old 03-15-2020, 02:17 AM
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Apologies for resurrecting an old thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hanleyclifford View Post
We have had other members report that oil pressure increases with time and temp increase after start up. I have tried to make sense of this because it is counter intuitive to my understanding and experience that viscosity decreases with temp and hence pressure should also decrease. One factor that keeps coming to mind is the nature of the oil pump intake. The "bottleneck" is the 1/8" NPT 90 degree street ell coming right off the oil pump. Since that fitting is a casting, it's cross sectional area is subject to the irregularities of the casting process. Even a small burr in the oil stream could have an influence on flow especially at cold temperatures. Because of the foregoing "theory" I have modified my oil pump to use a 1/4" NPT fitting. The difference in oil flow was impressive and could account for the big pressure differential I live with between start up and cruise. I live with it and enjoy the (relatively) massive flow and pressure increases as well.
As a person about to assemble a rebuilt A4 engine after the last one lasting 45 years... I will hopefully be dead before anyone needs to rebuild it again.

I sent off the oil pump to MMI (courtesy of the Amish ones ) for testing and the result are it landed on the 'correct' side of the bell curve. But looking at Hanley comments about reducing the inlet restrictions and the 1/4" NPT street Ell... has anyone else done this?

BTW, when I build my first custom car, I did a "high volume, standard pressure" oil pump on the blueprinted engine. It has been a great motor, no leaks and still lots of pressure (75 PSI cold, drops to 40 PSI hot at idle and 50-60 PSI when running through the gears. Is a similar performance (but not exact PSI) possible on an A4?

... this is coming from a person after two A4s with low oil pressure after 2-3 hours of cruise.
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Old 03-15-2020, 10:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronstory View Post
Apologies for resurrecting an old thread.



As a person about to assemble a rebuilt A4 engine after the last one lasting 45 years... I will hopefully be dead before anyone needs to rebuild it again.

I sent off the oil pump to MMI (courtesy of the Amish ones ) for testing and the result are it landed on the 'correct' side of the bell curve. But looking at Hanley comments about reducing the inlet restrictions and the 1/4" NPT street Ell... has anyone else done this?

BTW, when I build my first custom car, I did a "high volume, standard pressure" oil pump on the blueprinted engine. It has been a great motor, no leaks and still lots of pressure (75 PSI cold, drops to 40 PSI hot at idle and 50-60 PSI when running through the gears. Is a similar performance (but not exact PSI) possible on an A4?

... this is coming from a person after two A4s with low oil pressure after 2-3 hours of cruise.
Running Shell Rotella 15w40, I get 60-80 on a cold start and it soon drops down to 40. I could set the pressure higher, I have the external oil filter with the pressure adjustment, but 40 was my goal. It is pretty much rock-steady on 40 unless run very long and hard, in which case sometimes it can drop to 20 at slow idle.
You may want to look at an oil temp gauge and an oil cooler. The temp gauge is on my list and maybe a cooler depending on what I find.
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Old 03-15-2020, 12:17 PM
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Joe--

I wish had your oil pressure, then I would only be dealing with a bit of blow-by. I manage that by having vent cap with a hose connection that I put in the bilge blower inlet. Looks similar to:

https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/BK_7...oaApyvEALw_wcB

I have 80PSI cold when warm up the engine and drop to 40-45 in 5 mins. When running for more than hour at cruise I'm at 20 PSI. At idle when I'm maneuvering into the slip, I'm at so low on oil pressure that I'm worried about the OPSS killing the engine.

Now back to the question: Has anyone else done the larger 1/4" NPT Street ell into the oil pump?
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