Return to the home page...

Go Back   Moyer Marine Atomic 4 Community - Home of the Afourians > Discussion Topics > Fuel System

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1   IP: 98.189.79.99
Old 12-11-2019, 06:26 PM
AFisch AFisch is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Laguna Niguel
Posts: 72
Thanks: 77
Thanked 3 Times in 1 Post
Palmer P60

Hey All...so it was suggested I start a new thread here...

To back track...I have an old Columbia with a Palmer...been having shut down problems, have done all tests, spark, fuel filters, fuel pump, new fuel lines, compression, etc. Was still having an issue with the engine shutting down after a few minutes of running.

I have now taken off the Carb and it is an Old Zenith with no part number, but just orders a rebuild kit from Moyer that looks like it'll work. This should be arriving in the next week, so I will be sure to post an update after I clean it and get it back to factory good.

I hope you all find me on this thread!

Adam
Reply With Quote
  #2   IP: 97.93.70.7
Old 12-11-2019, 08:04 PM
Dave Neptune Dave Neptune is offline
Afourian MVP, Professor Emeritus
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Grove, Oklahoma
Posts: 5,035
Thanks: 711
Thanked 1,289 Times in 839 Posts
Any pics of t=your Zenith. Probably the same carb or at least very close. Is it a Series 67?

Your symptoms and troubles should be in direct comparison to the A-4. Similar size and style just a different manufacturer.

Dave Neptune
Reply With Quote
  #3   IP: 98.189.79.99
Old 12-12-2019, 12:10 PM
AFisch AFisch is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Laguna Niguel
Posts: 72
Thanks: 77
Thanked 3 Times in 1 Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Neptune View Post
Any pics of t=your Zenith. Probably the same carb or at least very close. Is it a Series 67?

Your symptoms and troubles should be in direct comparison to the A-4. Similar size and style just a different manufacturer.

Dave Neptune
This is the only pic I have so far...I'll put it together and take a better pic.
Attached Images
 
Reply With Quote
  #4   IP: 98.117.4.37
Old 12-12-2019, 04:00 PM
Don Moyer's Avatar
Don Moyer Don Moyer is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,811
Thanks: 0
Thanked 183 Times in 124 Posts
Late model carb on Palmer P60

AFisch, For whatever it's worth, and if you can't resurrect your old carburetor, we do sell a handful of new Atomic 4 Zenith carburetors to Palmer P60 owners each year, and they work fine. https://moyermarine.com/product/carb...fcar_13-2_166/ .

The only complication is that original carburetors used on Palmer engines (as well as those on early model Atomic 4s) had internal scavenge tubes. So, to be Coast Guard legal, you'll need the additional adaptive parts listed in the product description in our catalog to provide a scavenge tube. This requirement will likely exist for any currently available new carburetor that would work on your Palmer P-60. You can call Ken at (610) 421-4436 for more information. Don
Reply With Quote
  #5   IP: 98.189.79.99
Old 12-12-2019, 04:16 PM
AFisch AFisch is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Laguna Niguel
Posts: 72
Thanks: 77
Thanked 3 Times in 1 Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Moyer View Post
AFisch, For whatever it's worth, and if you can't resurrect your old carburetor, we do sell a handful of new Atomic 4 Zenith carburetors to Palmer P60 owners each year, and they work fine. https://moyermarine.com/product/carb...fcar_13-2_166/ .

The only complication is that original carburetors used on Palmer engines (as well as those on early model Atomic 4s) had internal scavenge tubes. So, to be Coast Guard legal, you'll need the additional adaptive parts listed in the product description in our catalog to provide a scavenge tube. This requirement will likely exist for any currently available new carburetor that would work on your Palmer P-60. You can call Ken at (610) 421-4436 for more information. Don
Thanks Don...I already bought the rebuild kit from your website for the early model carbs...should be arriving on the 18th and I will get to cleaning this one and putting it back together. If I have problems, I will certainly look to buying a new one.
Reply With Quote
  #6   IP: 97.93.70.7
Old 12-14-2019, 11:24 AM
Dave Neptune Dave Neptune is offline
Afourian MVP, Professor Emeritus
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Grove, Oklahoma
Posts: 5,035
Thanks: 711
Thanked 1,289 Times in 839 Posts
Aisch, be very careful cleaning out the idle circuit. The idle jet in this series carb is very small and could easily be plugged by a "spec" of debris.

Also do install the scavenge tube as it can eliminate a big bang or burn. It is a safety devise and it is very simple.

When you do try to start with the rebuilt carb do try using an auxiliary fuel tank and a gravity feed of a few feet will run her up enough to see if all is well. Once confirmed "good" then try feeding with the boats tank. If anything goes amiss do remove and flush the carb immediately. Probably no need to redo but you will at least know if the fuel in the tank is good~~somewhat important.

Do use new lines and freshen the filters for the rebuilt carb if it passes the auxiliary fuel test.

This is a perfect time to add a fuel pressure gage which can save much time diagnosing in the future.

Dave Neptune
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Dave Neptune For This Useful Post:
AFisch (12-16-2019)
  #7   IP: 45.49.35.172
Old 04-02-2020, 10:00 PM
Ando's Avatar
Ando Ando is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: San Pedro, CA
Posts: 247
Thanks: 333
Thanked 58 Times in 38 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by AFisch View Post
Thanks Don...I already bought the rebuild kit from your website for the early model carbs...should be arriving on the 18th and I will get to cleaning this one and putting it back together. If I have problems, I will certainly look to buying a new one.
Back in post #9, you indicated that you purchased an "early model" rebuild kit. The picture of your carb, however, shows that it is a late model carb (because it has five screws rather than four). I made the same mistake when I rebuilt my late model carb for the first time (i.e., I purchased an early model carb rebuild kit from MMI). Not only are the jets totally different (as per Ken of MMI) but, just as important, is the fact that the gasket that goes between the two halves of the carb that comes with the early model rebuild kit is totally different than the gasket that comes with the late model rebuild kit. And the difference is that the early model gasket doesnt cover the fifth screw, which can lead to an air leak which, in turn, can cause stalling.

Thus, take a look at your receipt and see exactly which rebuild kit you ordered. If it says "early model", you know that it is the wrong kit. Then look at the gasket between the two halves and you can bet that it doesnt cover the fifth screw. And you know that groovy shiny adjustment knob that came with the early model rebuild kit, which the directions say to install at the aft bottom of the carb...it doesn't belong on your late model carb. Rather, your carb just has a bolt-type plug in that goes there with a very specific size O-ring. The jet that is within that plug, as well as all the other jets, are all different too in the late model.

Dont fret as I did about cross threading by placing early model jets etc. in a late model carb, the threads are the same in both rebuild kits.

Hope that helps. Keep plugging away. I just got my late model A4 running again today after a six month adventure which included an engine swap (due to a thrashed #2 journal caused by me not putting oil in the early model engine, which is now in my garage waiting to be rebuilt) and rebuilding the late model A4 on my boat now with almost all new parts and a whole lot of fails. And it was all thanks to the patience and mentoring within this community and especially ndutton. FYI, six months ago, all I knew about engines was how to change a spark plug and put oil and gas (but I even failed at putting oil as you can see). I didn't even know what a carb was, let alone having the confidence to take it out and rebuild it. I have yet to learn as I am having a fuel delivery issue, but I digress. Good luck and please keep us posted.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Ando For This Useful Post:
AFisch (04-02-2020)
  #8   IP: 97.93.70.7
Old 12-11-2019, 08:05 PM
Dave Neptune Dave Neptune is offline
Afourian MVP, Professor Emeritus
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Grove, Oklahoma
Posts: 5,035
Thanks: 711
Thanked 1,289 Times in 839 Posts
Got ya

Any pics of your Zenith. Probably the same carb or at least very close. Is it a Series 67?

Your symptoms and troubles should be in direct comparison to the A-4. Similar size and style just a different manufacturer.

Dave Neptune
Reply With Quote
  #9   IP: 24.152.132.140
Old 12-11-2019, 10:54 PM
ndutton's Avatar
ndutton ndutton is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 9,619
Thanks: 198
Thanked 2,208 Times in 1,425 Posts
Based on your description I'm sure a carburetor rebuild is in order but I'm doubtful it will solve your problem. It really sounds like contaminated fuel to me. Do you have a mechanical or electric fuel pump?

I suggest you search the forum to read up on testing with an auxiliary fuel tank.
__________________
Neil
1977 Catalina 30
San Pedro, California
prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22
Had my hands in a few others
Reply With Quote
  #10   IP: 137.103.82.227
Old 12-12-2019, 09:31 AM
joe_db's Avatar
joe_db joe_db is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 4,474
Thanks: 49
Thanked 1,026 Times in 721 Posts
Second that. I am about 90% sure your problem will persist. Did you ever check the fuel pressure?

Last edited by joe_db; 12-12-2019 at 09:33 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #11   IP: 137.103.82.227
Old 12-14-2019, 12:33 PM
joe_db's Avatar
joe_db joe_db is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 4,474
Thanks: 49
Thanked 1,026 Times in 721 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by joe_db View Post
Second that. I am about 90% sure your problem will persist. Did you ever check the fuel pressure?
I think I changed my mind, that carb looks nasty
I would think about a new one IMHO. I had one that caused endless issues no matter how many times it was cleaned or rebuilt and I finally got Moyer to mail me a new one mid-cruise.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to joe_db For This Useful Post:
AFisch (12-16-2019)
  #12   IP: 98.189.79.99
Old 12-12-2019, 12:02 PM
AFisch AFisch is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Laguna Niguel
Posts: 72
Thanks: 77
Thanked 3 Times in 1 Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ndutton View Post
Based on your description I'm sure a carburetor rebuild is in order but I'm doubtful it will solve your problem. It really sounds like contaminated fuel to me. Do you have a mechanical or electric fuel pump?

I suggest you search the forum to read up on testing with an auxiliary fuel tank.
I replaced the fuel pump (electric pump), and also tested from an auxiliary 5 gallon jerry can of fresh fuel...this was before I took the carb off...the problem still happened when doing that.

And looking at the fuel coming out of the tank when checking the flow all the way down to the line going into the carb, it all looks clean and had a steady flow to it.

Adam
Reply With Quote
  #13   IP: 107.3.176.227
Old 03-07-2021, 10:38 AM
Golforboat Golforboat is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 2
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Starting issue

Reaching out to this tread for some additional assistance. Recently rebuilt my Zenith carb and after some lengthy tweaking (becoming an expert at removing and taking the carb apart) have it running fine but cannot get to start when cold. My only solution currently is to physically “choke” the carb by putting my hand over the intake to create enough suction to get fuel into the cylinders. Once it starts and is warm will restart every time. When it cools completely overnight need to go back to the manual process. This should happen with the choke but does not create enough suction. Did not make any changes to the choke on rebuild other than reattach the cable. Any thoughts? I’ve tried everything I can think of. Thank you.
Reply With Quote
  #14   IP: 47.142.136.120
Old 03-07-2021, 11:23 AM
JOHN COOKSON JOHN COOKSON is offline
Afourian MVP, Professor Emeritus
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,500
Thanks: 54
Thanked 855 Times in 629 Posts
How did you adjust the choke cable?
Here's the correct way.
In the cockpit support the knob ~ 1/4" off the stop by wrapping wire or something else around it.
At the carburetor secure the outer cover and pass the center wire through the choke. Hold the choke open, and pull the center wire tight with pair of pliers and tighten the hold down screw on the choke. This takes two hands and a tail but it can be done. Remove the wire that is holding the knob up off the stop, pull the knob up, and check to see if the choke is fully closed. When you open the choke all the way the knob will be ~ 1/4" off the stop.

ex TRUE GRIT

Last edited by JOHN COOKSON; 03-08-2021 at 06:30 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #15   IP: 192.186.122.174
Old 03-08-2021, 04:37 PM
GregH's Avatar
GregH GregH is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Kingston, ON
Posts: 564
Thanks: 385
Thanked 103 Times in 80 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by JOHN COOKSON View Post
How did you adjust the choke cable?
... Hold the choke closed, and pull the center wire tight with pair of pliers and tighten the hold down screw on the choke. ...Remove the wire that is holding the knob up off the stop, pull the knob up, and check to see if the choke is fully closed.
ex TRUE GRIT
Could you please clarify, if one attaches the wire with the choke held closed, how can one pull any more on the knob to close the choke more? With the choke a 1/4" from the stop, wouldn't the choke would remain in a "closed" position?
__________________
Greg
1975 Alberg 30
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to GregH For This Useful Post:
W2ET (03-08-2021)
  #16   IP: 47.142.136.120
Old 03-08-2021, 06:32 PM
JOHN COOKSON JOHN COOKSON is offline
Afourian MVP, Professor Emeritus
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,500
Thanks: 54
Thanked 855 Times in 629 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregH View Post
Could you please clarify, if one attaches the wire with the choke held closed, how can one pull any more on the knob to close the choke more? With the choke a 1/4" from the stop, wouldn't the choke would remain in a "closed" position?
Good catch. Thanks.
I changed the original post.

ex TRUE GRIT
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
electronic Ignition for Palmer P-60 jerry creager Ignition System 3 09-29-2014 09:40 AM
Palmer P-60 For Sale tangaroa3 For Sale - Engines and Engine Parts 2 02-20-2014 02:43 PM
Carb For Palmer P60 - Same as Atomic 4? bpowdrell Fuel System 3 08-29-2012 08:58 AM
Palmer p-60 problem Jerry C Troubleshooting 4 06-03-2011 03:58 PM
Palmer P60 out and ready to be sold... Amorita34 For Sale - Engines and Engine Parts 1 02-27-2009 09:51 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:55 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.


Universal® is a registered trademark of Westerbeke Corporation

Copyright © 2004-2024 Moyer Marine Inc.

All Rights Reserved