Engine fire extinquisher system and fuses

[ArtJ]

Charlie

Are you saying that the fuse itself will not create sparks or flame due to
unique construction?

Thanks and Regards

[hanleyclifford]

Art - I have a 150 amp Blue Seas System breaker intstalled in the negative side of the battery cable run under the galley with a bulkhead separating it from the engine room. Inside the engine room I have the Fireboy Halon automatic unit which is still holding charge after 18 years. I"m told it is OK with the CG but cannot be replaced or recharged. I also carry both CO2 and dry chemical units.

[Mo]

check this out

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/windsor/story/2011/12/21/wdr-marina-fire-damage-employee-escapes.html?cmp=rss

When fiberglass catches fire it is a job and a half to put it out.

[ndutton]

I've actually fought a big fiberglass fire, a Columbia 45 hull in the mold and totally engulfed. I was helping a retired Navy fireman (the engine man on our line) operate a fire hose about 15 feet in front of the flames.

It burns like nothing you've ever seen, truly a chemical fire. At Islander we were told it takes a floating 28 footer only 10 minutes to burn to the waterline.

[ArtJ]

Thanks Mo, Neil and Hanley

Hanley Glad to see you are all nestled down in Florida!
]
]Best Regards

Art

[jhwelch]

A friend of mine almost had a horrible accident. He had been motoring all day, had stopped and anchored for the night, and was in his dinghy scrubbing the stern of diesel soot when he saw smoke pouring out the back storage hatch.

The short version of this long story is after doing some starter motor work the battery cable ran slightly differently and was rubbing against a metal bracket. It went to a dead short when he stopped for the night, and the ends of the battery cables were melting their insulation and the battery switches were turning to slag, so he could not switch the batteries off.

That's a good argument for having a heavy duty fuse at a good point in the circuit.

-Jonathan

[edwardc]

I (mistakenly?) in the past took ignition protected to mean it somehow
protected engine ignition electrical parts, should I have read this
as FUSE IS FLAME IGNiTION PROOF as in flamming of the fuse and surrounding fumes?

Regards

Art

Ignition protected means it will not ignite a flamable vapor mixture.


Funny story: Years ago, when I worked for the Navy dept, we had these big, heavy black plastic flashlights that were ignition protected, but back then, they were labled as "Explosion Proof". One of my co-workers noticed that for the first time and said "Really? That's cool!", and proceeded to test it by smashing the flashlight on the edge of the workbench!

The look on his face was priceless when the flashlight head shattered into a dozen pieces!

[rrranch]

If any of you were navy engineers you already know this but there are three basic types of extinguishers. A B and C. Alpha is anything that leaves an ash like wood and fiberglass. Dry chemicals are worthless on this one because they don't cool the burning material. Bravo is fuels. DON'T use WATER ON THIS ONE. Charlie is electrical. DON"T USE CO2. Electricity can travel through it and get you.
I don't give a squat what the coast guard says about my 3 CO2 extinguishers, from lots of experience I am using them if it's wood. It is the only one with any kind of cooling effect. If we're hooked up to shore power and it's in an electrical conduit it's dangerous though.

The dry chemicals are great for fuel and that's really about it. They may knock down a class Alpha fire but not for long. If this is all you have then knock it down by aiming at the base of the fire then cool it with water.

I have 8 fire extinguishers. 3 CO2 and the rest dry chemicals. Halon is next. Halon is some great stuff. I've been in enginerooms twice now where a class Bravo fuel fire in the bilge nearly got out of control. I was the fire team leader and we had already exhausted most of our foam and we had dual hoses shooting foam and dry chemicals. Let me tell you, when several thousand gallons of jet fuel ignites on a 900 degree steam pipe that isn't going to cool down anytime soon, it's not a lot of fun putting it out. I ordered the halon activated both times while still in the space. My team had OBA's on so we weren't breathing it. The halon is a refrigerant so it does cool things to a degree. It also instantly knocked the fire out. All we had left was pumping the mess overboard and washing down any remaining flammables.

If you can afford a halon system GET IT! They work like nothing else. Just clear the area after it is dumped. If I remember right when it comes into contact with fire it turns into phosgene gas. Very bad stuff to breath. Also if you have to dump it, Seal everything up on the outside. It works by taking away oxygen. We always had a 30 minute rule with it in the navy.

Take this info for what it's worth. I don't know squat according to the coast guard. I'm only retired navy and they are the gods of at sea safety.

[hanleyclifford]

Thank you for that post, rranch. I do have the Halon automatic in the engine room. I also carry CO2 and one dry chemical (for coast guard inspectoion).

[rrranch]

My surveyor just told me I had to get rid of my CO2. He said they aren't coast guard approved anymore. I called the CG and couldn't get an answer. Just a heads up. I'm not getting rid of anything. I'd get more fire extinguishers though. We have at least 2 in each section of the boat. Overkill. I don't care though. I've never relied on someone else to put out my fires and I'm not letting my boat go down from one either.

Another tip for dry chemical I learned. Sailboats are tight. If you can't get near the actual source of the flame then shoot it at a bulkhead or engine block or something near it to disburse the chemical. I have done that a lot in bilge fires where we couldn't get close enough. Most of them only shoot a solid stream out and that's about worthless. Especially if it's something like a pan of hot grease on your stove. Bounce it off the wall behind it to smother the whole area. Some of these extinguishers have enough pressure that if you blast the pan you just end up with a bigger fire. I learned a lot about galley fires on my last ship. Those officers were dangerous in the wardroom.

[hanleyclifford]

Your surveyor is presumptuous and should be replaced. Just because something is no longer "approved" by the Coast Guard does not mean it is without value. The biggest problem with CO2 units is that they must be inspected and re-tagged every year, which is a hassle. That is why I also carry the dry chemical - so the Coast Guard can check it off. IMO CO2 should be the first line of defense on boat fires and the chemical used only as a last resort. BTW, I put out a carb fire on the starting line at the drags with the CO2 I carried on my roll bar - the owner was grateful that he could simply restart and make his run.

[rrranch]

You're right. CO2 is great stuff. Just be careful on AC electrical fires. When the nozzle develops frost on it current can travel right up to your hand. I saw it happen once on a 400 HZ motor generator. That guy got the shock of his life.

I did find out that I can inspect my own cylinders. Coast guard said so too. I'm more than qualified I know but I don't know if it applies to everyone. I just have to check them and sign the tags. Also, Not all of them have to have tags like my surveyor said. Only the minimum required by the coast guard does. I'm doing all of them though.

[Administrator]

Caveat Emptor

I'm not going to pick through this thread post by post, but I think there's a whole lot of stuff here which, to the best of my knowledge, simply isn't accurate.

Suggest you start with the CG requirements, add to that some consideration of the layout of your boat, how you use it, any unusual hazards aboard, any experience you may have which is relevant to firefighting, etc., etc., and go from there.

Bill

[hanleyclifford]

For a 30 ft sailboat, class 2, the requirement is two B I (5 lb) units. An automatic engine room unit can fill the requirement for one of those. I am not aware of any rule that excludes co2 from being acceptable.

[ndutton]

Oh Lordy Bill, your accuracy caution sent me scrambling to re-read my posts to make sure I hadn't stumbled. Good caution though, keeps us on our toes.

In my industry we are required to meet minimum standards. There is no restriction on installations beyond the minimum. I would think once the USCG fire extinguishing requirements are met as for quantity, type and certification date you can have anything additional you want. Their requirements are minimums.

Example: When my flares and day signals expire I don't discard them, I keep them just in case. Sure, I'll buy flares with current dates to satisfy the requirements but if all Hell breaks loose I'll be able to put on a fireworks show like no other using the expired but hopefully still functional flares in addition.