Shutdowns: Fuel Pump?

[JOHN COOKSON]

I have never have had a fuel pump problem car or boat so this is a new area for me.
I started having random shut downs. The first four or so times the engine would restart immediately and run normally. Now the engine starts and runs for ~a minute and then doesn't restart or won't start at all.
I noticed a very rapid sort of loud clicking coming from the fuel pump at times when I was trying to start the engine. So I (a) opened the fuel fill cap (b) shorted across the OPSS (c) took the purple wire from the key and the wire to the electric fuel pump off coil + and joined them together.
Now when I turn the key to on I get loud rapid clicking from the fuel pump that never quits - like it's pumping air. I vaguely remember forum member ED had this problem or something similar but I can't find the posts. They're probably buried in a thread.
The fuel pump on the engine is the original one that came with the engine from Universal. The boat was built in 1979 so it's been in service since then.
And, yes, I did have the fuel shut off valve at the tank open.
In the Moyer online catalog there are two electric fuel pumps listed: One rated at 2-3 PSI and one rated at 3-4 PSI for a Catalina 30. I presume I want the 2-3PSI rated model for my Catalina 27?
Any and all comments or advice would be much appreciated. It's summer. I want to go sailing not work on the boat.

TRUE GRIT

[joe_db]

A fuel pressure gauge will save you hours of farting around.

I have never have had a fuel pump problem car or boat so this is a new area for me.
I started having random shut downs. The first four or so times the engine would restart immediately and run normally. Now the engine starts and runs for ~a minute and then doesn't restart or won't start at all.
I noticed a very rapid sort of loud clicking coming from the fuel pump at times when I was trying to start the engine. So I (a) opened the fuel fill cap (b) shorted across the OPSS (c) took the purple wire from the key and the wire to the electric fuel pump off coil + and joined them together.
Now when I turn the key to on I get loud rapid clicking from the fuel pump that never quits - like it's pumping air. I vaguely remember forum member ED had this problem or something similar but I can't find the posts. They're probably buried in a thread.
The fuel pump on the engine is the original one that came with the engine from Universal. The boat was built in 1979 so it's been in service since then.
And, yes, I did have the fuel shut off valve at the tank open.
In the Moyer online catalog there are two electric fuel pumps listed: One rated at 2-3 PSI and one rated at 3-4 PSI for a Catalina 30. I presume I want the 2-3PSI rated model for my Catalina 27?
Any and all comments or advice would be much appreciated. It's summer. I want to go sailing not work on the boat.

TRUE GRIT

[roadnsky]

John-
The clicking is sort of a smoking gun here...
IF it is a loud, sort of hollow sounding clicking, you likely aren't getting fuel into/thru the pump.
When it's pumping normally, filled with fuel, the clicking is still there but VERY much muted.
The fact that it's clicking tells me it's pumping. (Or trying to)

A quick check until you get the very important pressure gauge that Joe mentioned, is to loosen the hose downstream of the pump to see if it's putting out fuel.
Obviously, you know to have a container (jar) to catch the fuel.
IF it isn't putting out any fuel, we can look upstream.

The issue you mention that Ed was talking about (I think) is that there is a check valve ball that sometimes sticks. You can unscrew the bottom of the Facet and remove the strainer, you'll see it.

I'm assuming the pump IS actually a Facet?

Oh yeah, you want the 2-3PSI rated model if you buy a new one.

[roadnsky]

...The issue you mention that Ed was talking about (I think) is that there is a check valve ball that sometimes sticks. You can unscrew the bottom of the Facet and remove the strainer, you'll see it..

John-
I found the thread and post you mentioned (I think)...

http://www.moyermarine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7284&highlight=fuel+pump

(Ed's post is #4)

And, I found a pic I have of the inside of the pump too.
You can clearly see the ball in the middle of the pump.

Again, this is all assuming the pump IS a Facet.

[Marian Claire]

As mentioned a fuel pressure gauge is a great thing. Having struggled with fuel delivery issues I have to ask if your fuel/water separator is higher than your pump? A small air leak can cause all kinds of issues.
Dan S/V Marian Claire

[Mo]

Hi John

Fuel pressure gauge as suggested by others. Air getting into the system a possibility and fuel pump failure another.

Something to think about. Dip the tank and see if you have fuel...forget the gauge for now. If it is low add a bit of fuel and see if the symptoms change. If it runs then... Sometimes the pick up tube corrodes away and air gets into the system as the level drops. In such a case you'd have to put a new tube in it. If when you added gas to the tank, and it runs,....that's where your problem is. This can sometimes lead to intermittent shut downs as well as a certain degree of heal might make the difference in air getting pulled into the system vrs fuel...just something to think about.

[JOHN COOKSON]

Jerry
Thanks. That was the post I was thinking about. I'm not so sure that I have a Facet pump - it's covered with brown paint. The screw on base on my pump is different than the ones in the on line catalog. But who knows what a facet pump looked like 38 or 39 years ago? Not me.

Mo
I didn't think of the pick up in the tank. I'm going to yank it out and have a look at it. Does anyone know what kind of plastic pick up tube in the tank I should use? And where do I buy one? I know the one that is in there now is copper because I put it there - in my pre forum days. Even though gasoline is a non conductor having a copper tube in an aluminum tank makes me nervous.

The way forward is starting to become a bit more clear. Plan "A" is to be sure that I am getting fuel to the pump with no air leaks then go from there.

All comments and suggestions are welcome.
Thanks guys.

TRUE GRIT

[romantic comedy]

I had an intermittent facet fuel pump. It drove me crazy for a whole season.