Need A4 help and guidance in Bellingham WA

[joe_db]

Thread hijack:
Whatever became of my old engine?

Your positive attitude towards your new purchase is great as is the advice your getting. I may have missed the advice given already about old gas in the tank. I read where you added fresh, was the tank already empty before you added fresh? Make sure your entire fuel system is CLEAN and leak free, otherwise you'll be solving one problem only to find another. Good luck to you!

[Mark Millbauer]

Junaido,
Congratulations on your entry into the A4 and the C27 world. You will find wonderful advice here.

I am in Seattle area so still a bit too far away to run up there but if you want someone to talk to via phone, send me a private message.

mark
Fellow A4 powered c27 owner

[lat 64]

I sailed my Cat 22 from Everette to Bainbridge in 2005. it took about 4 hours. I felt like I was in a pea-pod out there. The Subaru Maru shows no mercy, so be watchful. It gets calm sometimes on the sound, and the sails flopping around while sitting in the Ferry lane is just unnerving—not fun.
You don't want to get caught there if the new-to-you a-4 quits. I am guessing you are just moving the boat down closer to home. Maybe you can borrow a small outboard to cobble up on the transom for the remote engine emergency.
If you have time to really get it dependable, then do so before you go. Sounds like a fun trip.

Russ

[junaido]

Progress Report

So my boat partner and I went to Bellingham today armed with the knowledge acquired on this forum. After poking around a little we established that the fuel pump was the mechanical kind.
Jiggling the little bucket handle thingy on it 20 times produced very gratifying results. The engine fired up like a top with open choke and a little bit of throttle. It ran smoothly without any signs
of hesitation or misfiring. We ran it for about 5 minutes and then closed choke and it idles fine as well. However I did not see any water in the exhaust.
We did open the raw water intake immediately after engine started (assuming parallel to water hose is open, perpendicular is closed). The water temperature gauge was steady at 180.
Oil pressure was around 40. There is no tachometer. I also tried engaging the transmission and it does go forward and reverse but stalls after a while.
More worryingly, it felt really hot and smoky in the engine compartment. I am wondering if there is a problem with the water cooling circuit or exhaust.The exhaust pipe is covered with white cladding.
There is a small black hose entering the big pipe, I am guessing this is the hot water that will mix with the exhaust gases. The white covering ends and there is big diameter rusty pipe extension angled
downwards with a cap on it. Then an exhaust hose leading to the transom. I did not see any valve on the exhaust system so I am wondering if any of the following is a problem.
1. Water pump
2. Stuck thermostat
3. So much scaling and rust that its blocking the water from reaching exhaust.
4. The raw water intake valve handle is reversed (perpendicular is open instead of closed)

Some questions :

How much water should be coming out the exhaust pipe ?
What is the purpose of the rusty Y-junction in the exhaust pipe with the big cap on it ?
Will I have to prime the manual fuel pump every time I am starting the engine after a few days ?
How many time should I jiggle the fuel pump handle ?
Do these A4s have an over-temp alarm or engine overheating shutdown ?
Is 180 too high a water temp or am I needlessly worried about lack of water in exhaust?
Are the water pump impellers widely available at marine stores or a specialty item ?
Does the transmission need any kind of maintenance, fluid changes etc ?

Still, we are greatly encouraged by the ease of starting it. Any advice or guidance regarding the many questions is much appreciated.

Thanks,

Junaid

[junaido]

A couple more pictures, water pump, exhaust etc.
It looks like an Oberdorfer water pump.

[hanleyclifford]

Before proceeding you need to troubleshoot the water problem. Plenty should be coming out that exhaust pipe. There is a danger of frying the exhaust hose if you run it dry too much. Disregard the temp gauge for now. The most common restriction point is the fitting where the water exists the manifold.Take the hose off at that point and start the engine briefly. If no water, work back to the thru hull via the pump. You may have to pull the thermostat. Otherwise your engine looks good.

[Marian Claire]

I agree with HC that the water needs to be addressed immediately. Everyone has their own approach based on their experience so I will throw in mine. I would do the first check as Hanley suggests. If you have flow then the wet/dry connection is probably the issue. Some boats have a valve in the exhaust but if it was closed I do not think the engine would run at all.
If no flow I would go back to the thru hull and start there. I know I have water outside the boat so where is the blockage? The blockages I have found were in the thru hull or the first fitting after it. Others have found the blockage at the exit from the water pump or the T-stat. Which ever way up proceed just do it one connection at a time and do not jump around. This is one of those " You know what they say about opinions etc" things. It does sound like you have a very serviceable A-4. Dan S/V Marian Claire

[ILikeRust]

The engine fired up like a top with open choke and a little bit of throttle. It ran smoothly without any signs
of hesitation or misfiring.

Cool!

However I did not see any water in the exhaust.

I would guess that since the engine hasn't run for a while, your water pump impeller could be disintegrated. First thing I would do is open up that pump and see what the impeller looks like and probably drop a new one in there.

We did open the raw water intake immediately after engine started (assuming parallel to water hose is open, perpendicular is closed).

Correct.

I am wondering if any of the following is a problem.
1. Water pump

That would be my first guess - shot impeller or something else wrong with the pump itself. But most likely impeller.

2. Stuck thermostat

You still would have water flowing through the engine and out the exhaust, whether the t-stat is open or closed - it affects only which part of the engine it circulates through. It does not shut off the water completely.

3. So much scaling and rust that its blocking the water from reaching exhaust.

Yes, another possibility - or just a blockage somewhere, could be from a disintegrated water pump impeller.

4. The raw water intake valve handle is reversed (perpendicular is open instead of closed)

Doubtful.

How much water should be coming out the exhaust pipe?

Sorry for the lousy cell-phone video quality, but this should give you an idea.

[YOUTUBE]J-ts7GJ1oHg[/YOUTUBE]

Do these A4s have an over-temp alarm or engine overheating shutdown ?

Only if you add it. Moyer sells an over-temp and low oil pressure alarm kit. I installed it on mine. It does not automatically shut the engine down, but it will make a loud buzz and alert you.

Is 180 too high a water temp or am I needlessly worried about lack of water in exhaust?

180 is an optimal temp, but if you have no water in the exhaust, you definitely should be worried.

Are the water pump impellers widely available at marine stores or a specialty item?

Easily available from our benefactor - check the online catalog at the Moyer Marine site.

Does the transmission need any kind of maintenance, fluid changes etc?

It is not really a "transmission", per se. It shares the engine oil - the oil pan is one big, long tub, and the reversing gear assembly is splashed with the engine oil. So change your oil every 50 hours of operation and as part of your winterization scheme, using good quality 30-weight detergent oil (Rotella is a favorite around here) and that's all it should need, unless it's not shifting right, then it might need a minor and relatively simple adjustment.

[junaido]

Thanks for all the feedback. Definitely something is going on in the wet exhaust because its hardly spitting any water compared to the youtube clip. And the exhaust pipe/hose was pretty hot. It also occurred to me that the raw water intake might be clogged from the outside due to marine growth. The boat has been sitting for a while, who knows how much crud is on the bottom. Might try to heel her over and see if I can get a brush down there. Or maybe get it hauled and pressure washed, do the zincs etc., see what kind of shape the bottom is in after who knows how many years of disuse.

[hanleyclifford]

While still in the water you might try this: cobble a garden hose fitting to the thru hull and tr5y back blasting the outside strainer clear.

[joe_db]

IMHO - I would replace the exhaust hot section. From the looks of it, you could be very close to it rusting apart.
BTDT

[hanleyclifford]

IMHO - I would replace the exhaust hot section. From the looks of it, you could be very close to it rusting apart.
BTDT

Yeah, and it looks like the PO made it real easy, too...pipe union right off the manifold flange.

[junaido]

I guess I could do what this guy did. Put the intake hose in a bucket of water.
Are there any radiator flush type additives I can add to help flush out the system or is that a bad idea ?

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quHnaK8kiW4[/YOUTUBE]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quHnaK8kiW4

Junaid

[positron]

Before you do anything else, take your water pump off, take it apart and change out any dubious parts. The most likely cause of no water flow is a bad impeller. A bad impeller can fall apart and the rubber crumbs get flushed into the rest of the engine, clogging passages. Once you get this fixed, stick the inlet hose in a bucket of water to see if the pump works.

Something to worry about: Typically there are rubber exhaust hoses downstream of where the water gets mixed into the exhaust. These can only take hot exhaust (without water mixed in) for a short time. They can melt or delaminate, causing the inner layer to slump and restrict flow, and eventually they can totally melt or even catch on fire if allowed to get too hot. Some boats have the exhaust exit under water, and if the rubber hose melts under the water line the boat can sink. So you want a healthy flow of water coming out of the exhaust.

[junaido]

Point taken about exhaust hose meltdown. Water pump investigation is at the top of our agenda for the next visit. We ran the engine for about 5-10 minutes total. Hopefully the hose survived that experience.