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  #1   IP: 173.189.202.204
Old 04-02-2011, 10:37 AM
gclayton gclayton is offline
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Ethanol and other Govt. Meddeling

With all the changes in formulation of gas I am unsure if I should use gas from a gas station, what grade and if I need to add any special gas treatment. Also, will dry gas hurt the engine and will it help eliminate any water condensation?

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Old 04-02-2011, 11:21 AM
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gclayton,
Practical Sailor magazine as of Nov. 2008, liked Sta-Bil Marine Formula, as their additive of choice. Since most of us are relegated to using normal automotive type fuel, I transport mine, 5 gallons at a time from home in an effort to get the cleanest, most water free fuel as possible. 87 octane is all an A4 really needs.
Tom
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Old 04-02-2011, 12:37 PM
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I've had my A4 for four years now. Aside from my first season, when pouring five gallons of gas of an unknown vintage that the PO left me promptly clogged my carb, I've had zero issues with modern gasoline.

I use the ordinary Sta-Bil and Marvel's MO and add gas five at a time to top up the tank. In a season I probably use a total of 15 gallons, which means my tank gets a total turnover of gas every year.

It seems to me that if one is truly concerned with the gas in his tank, the best solution would be to drain the fuel tank as part of the winterizing program and start with all fresh gas the next season. That should take care of it.
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Old 04-03-2011, 09:11 AM
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Ethanol is a lousy fuel. Evironmentalism at it's worst. Take away the subsidies and see how long it stays on the market.
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Old 04-03-2011, 09:28 AM
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Please don't lump ethanol policy with environmentalism. The only good thing ethanol does is make some corn farmers rich. It's bad for the environment, bad for marine fuel systems, bad for your lawn mower, costs more to make than straight gasoline, and drives the overall price of food up. I know quite a few environmentalists and none of them ever thought it was a good idea.
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Old 04-03-2011, 02:53 PM
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Come on guys...my company is doing very well transporting the stuff on our trains and providing employment to the guys who man the trains.

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Old 04-03-2011, 04:20 PM
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Couldn't agree more

Ethanol, from corn, is terrible. We're burning our food. The only people it helps are some mid west farmers (not that theres anything wrong with mid-west farmers) and a bunch of suits!
I've had to drain my tank the last two seasons due to it. Sta-bil just can't get it done.
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Old 04-03-2011, 06:03 PM
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The reason I connected ethanol with environmentalism is because ethanol is marketed as a "greener fuel" - which is simply false! Without that marketing schtick I do not believe that the whole subsidy scam would have had the legs to succeed.

That is what I meant by environmentalism at it's worst , and I stand by it.

Now it is becoming increasingly difficult for commoners in Latin countries to afford their staple tortillas because we are putting corn in our gas tanks.

We should be ashamed.
Laker
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Last edited by Laker; 04-03-2011 at 06:11 PM.
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Old 04-03-2011, 07:29 PM
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Ethanol isn't going away anytime soon guys...besides, some of those commoners could stand to eat a few less tortillas anyway;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2qlGvAzxSI

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Old 04-03-2011, 08:28 PM
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."besides, some of those commoners could stand to eat a few less tortillas anyway"

That is not funny. Corn is the basis of their diet.
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Old 04-05-2011, 10:45 PM
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Don't use E10 or E15

Boat US takes the position that Ethanol is bad for the marine engine. Here is a link to the BoatUS article.
http://www.boatus.com/news/e10_0706.htm
Plus the government agency that regulates that, sorry can't remember that 3 letter agency, further states that e-blends are not approved for the marine industry. I am particularly concerned about the corrisive effect on almost anything, tanks, both metal and fiberglass and hoses.
You can go to this site and find real gas, http://www.buyrealgas.com/.
I was just in west Florida and the couple of marinas I visited I specifically asked about the gas blend. They all had real gas at a 89 or 91 octane.
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Old 04-06-2011, 07:33 AM
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"They all had real gas....."

That's the key.
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Old 04-06-2011, 09:20 PM
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Exclamation

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimG View Post
Please don't lump ethanol policy with environmentalism. The only good thing ethanol does is make some corn farmers rich. It's bad for the environment, bad for marine fuel systems, bad for your lawn mower, costs more to make than straight gasoline, and drives the overall price of food up. I know quite a few environmentalists and none of them ever thought it was a good idea.
+1 JimG - The environmentalists don't want us burning anything at all as far as I can tell. I wish I could get there!

The latest personal problem I have is that NASCAR is now endorsing ethanol laced fuel. I wonder if they will need to remove the restrictor plates at Talledaga and Daytona now to still make enough HP do to 200MPH??
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Old 04-07-2011, 09:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laker View Post
."besides, some of those commoners could stand to eat a few less tortillas anyway"

That is not funny. Corn is the basis of their diet.
And the corn that is grown to make ethanol is not the same type of corn that is used to make tortillas...just like the corn that is grown to feed cattle is not the same type of corn used to feed people.

It will be some time yet before we see a shortage in the supermarkets.


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Old 04-07-2011, 09:30 PM
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There is a fuel station near me in town, that sells both unleaded with and unleaded without ethanol. The w/o is 5 cents/gallon more than the ethanol fuel. There is no super, premium or unleaded. Just unleaded (87) without ethanol and unleaded (87) with ethanol.
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Old 04-07-2011, 09:34 PM
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will, if you could figure out how to package and send it legally, you'd make a killing...only $0.05 per gallon for a more efficient fuel that costs less to produce???? Whodathunk!
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Old 04-08-2011, 05:33 AM
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10% ethanol gas phase seperation

In only 3 months of storage, phases seperation occurs in ethanol gas. Take a clear glass jar and carefully fill it with ethanol/gas and set it in a safe place. Then go look at it after 3 or more months. That is exactly what it does in your fuel tank, plus the ethanol/alcohol is a solvent for the build up on the sides and bottom of your tank. This will clog your filters very fast. In the cool of the evening, moist air is drawn into your boat's fuel tank through the vent. The next warm day it condenses and makes it way to the bottom of the tank mixing with ethanol. I advise all of my friends to drain their tank if they are not going to be using their boat for over 1 month.

In Florida marine fuel stations sell ethanol free gas and a few land based stations may have one pump dedicated to 100% gasoline. I just bought 10 gallons yesterday, 5 for my 50HP Johnson on my deck boat and 5 for my A4, lawn mower, air compresser, tiller, trash pumps, etc. Sometimes these tools may not be used for over 3 months and I don't want ethanol in the tanks. If you use this fuel in an older outboard, get ready to replace all of your fuel hoses, rebuild the fuel pump and carburator.

On a recent trip back to SoCal towing our 22' travel trailer, I kept close tabs on fuel used and consumption. When using 10% ethanol our mileage was reduced 15.8%. More fuzzy headed psuedo scientists solutions.

Tom Vandiver, Cranky Old Man
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Old 04-09-2011, 12:22 AM
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2dogs knows it

Here is a picture of the bottom nearly 1 gallon of fuel I pumped out of our 20 gallon gas tank after sitting in opaque containers for a short while.
We don't use our engine enough and some of the E10 fuel in our tank could be pretty old so ...
The picture says it all. We would get intermittent episodes where the throttle would become kind of 'woozy' or unresponsive and even die now and then.

About this time I learned to drain the carb main passage to clear the 'crud' out of the fuel.
Cleaning the fuel tank is still the real solution but cleaning the fuel is the best I could manage this spring.
Oversized photo to enhance the point, d'oh!
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Old 04-09-2011, 09:12 PM
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"And the corn that is grown to make ethanol is not the same type of corn that is used to make tortillas...just like the corn that is grown to feed cattle is not the same type of corn used to feed people."

As farmers shift acreage from sweet corn to subsidized ethanol specific corn production the market reacts accordingly. Take a look at food costs , for crying out loud. And what about the vast amount of fossil fuel that is consumed in the growing and processing of all that corn ?

Alcohol can be made from damn near anything that grows. Why do our trade laws dissuade ethanol made from sugar cane from South America? Because it would interfere with the domestic corn ethanol taxpayer subsidized racket , that's why!

Corn based ethanol is the greatest scam since Global Warming. The environment does not benefit , and we all pay - whether we burn that crap or not.

Environmentalism at it's worst. And , for the record , I never said that Environmentalism itself is bad.

Signed ,

A pilot who has logged 100's of hours tracking endangered migratory species , like I don't give a damn about the environment. And , by the way , we do not burn ethanol in aircraft engines , because it sucks when the engine fails.
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Old 04-10-2011, 12:12 AM
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exactly laker... +1.
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Old 04-10-2011, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laker View Post
"And the corn that is grown to make ethanol is not the same type of corn that is used to make tortillas...just like the corn that is grown to feed cattle is not the same type of corn used to feed people."

As farmers shift acreage from sweet corn to subsidized ethanol specific corn production the market reacts accordingly. Take a look at food costs , for crying out loud. And what about the vast amount of fossil fuel that is consumed in the growing and processing of all that corn ?

Alcohol can be made from damn near anything that grows. Why do our trade laws dissuade ethanol made from sugar cane from South America? Because it would interfere with the domestic corn ethanol taxpayer subsidized racket , that's why!

Corn based ethanol is the greatest scam since Global Warming. The environment does not benefit , and we all pay - whether we burn that crap or not.

Environmentalism at it's worst. And , for the record , I never said that Environmentalism itself is bad.

Signed ,

A pilot who has logged 100's of hours tracking endangered migratory species , like I don't give a damn about the environment. And , by the way , we do not burn ethanol in aircraft engines , because it sucks when the engine fails.
Yes pilot...and here is why;

DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION

Federal Aviation Administration

SAIB Number:
CE-07-06

Issue Date:
10/27/2006

Subject:
Alcohol (ethanol or methanol) present in the automobile gasoline on any General Aviation airplane

Worth reading for those who want to get the knowledge of whether or not they should use fuel with ethanol added to it in their A4's.

Cheers!

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Old 04-10-2011, 07:50 PM
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A better test for phase separation would be to put that E10 gas in a jar or jug in the trunk of your car and see what happens then. The gas in the tank of your sailboat isn't sitting perfectly still, but is being constantly agitated by the wave action at the dock and by sailing, and neither would be the jar of gas in the trunk.

Would that make a difference? I'd think it would have to. Maybe I'll perform that experiment and see what happens, and report back.
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Old 04-11-2011, 07:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baltimore Sailor View Post
A better test for phase separation would be to put that E10 gas in a jar or jug in the trunk of your car and see what happens then. The gas in the tank of your sailboat isn't sitting perfectly still, but is being constantly agitated by the wave action at the dock and by sailing, and neither would be the jar of gas in the trunk.

Would that make a difference? I'd think it would have to. Maybe I'll perform that experiment and see what happens, and report back.
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