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Old 12-14-2017, 12:02 AM
Ram41662 Ram41662 is offline
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Off into the deep end...

Hello World!

Well, I'm an sure glad I found this place. My wife just purchased me what she calls a "boat", I see it more of a "potential major maritime project". It's a 1974 Newport 27 (C & C hull) with what appears to be an Atomic 4 engine. I'll know more after I bring it back to my shop this coming Friday.

Wish me luck!



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Old 12-14-2017, 08:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ram41662 View Post
Hello World!

Well, I'm an sure glad I found this place. My wife just purchased me what she calls a "boat", I see it more of a "potential major maritime project". It's a 1974 Newport 27 (C & C hull) with what appears to be an Atomic 4 engine. I'll know more after I bring it back to my shop this coming Friday.

Wish me luck!



You've come to the right place. Welcome! The part that intrigues me is the "my wife just purchased me". And I saw in the winter projects thread she did it without you seeing it. Seems to me you can't go wrong with this "project".
Have fun.
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Old 12-14-2017, 12:49 PM
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Whoa! Not many wives like that around...maybe she is just trying to get you out of the house!

Anyway, welcome!
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Old 12-14-2017, 08:33 PM
Ram41662 Ram41662 is offline
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Yeh, I know it sounds weird, but she also buys my cigars too because she knows which brands/types I like.

It's a long story, but I'll keep it pretty short.

My wife came to me a year ago and said she felt I've done so much for her over the years she felt it was time we do something for me. SHE proposed we get a boat and start sailing the Caribbean. I've owned both a cabin cruiser and a sailboat before when I lived in Florida, so I already know I can handle it. Her, however, not so much. She grew in the Midwest, so no blue water experience. I suggested we buy a smaller boat and "practice" on fresh water first to see if she can handle it. Which leads us to what I'm up to now.

I was looking at buying a Santana 525 from a local seller, but he kept jerking me around, I think to get more money. I finally went down to do more than look at the boat and found with a quick survey the asking price was way too much for the condition of the vessel. To add insult, the seller told me an out of state buyer put a down payment on the boat. That was enough. I did a quick search on the web and found an ad for the Newport 27 for a price lower than the salvage was worth, so I was considering going to look at it and see exactly what was the deal. When I showed the wife what found, SHE called the salesman and bought the boat on the spot, over the phone, sight unseen. She was worried we would miss out again.

So, that's how this adventure started. I pick it up tomorrow. Wish me luck, I might just need it.
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Old 12-14-2017, 11:03 PM
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Is your wife single?

Asking for a friend.

Welcome aboard!
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Old 12-14-2017, 11:38 PM
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Is your wife single?

Asking for a friend.

Welcome aboard!
Ha! funny.
Don't mind us, Ram..we are really mostly greying middle-aged normal people.
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Old 12-14-2017, 11:46 PM
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Smile

Then I'm in with right crowd, sort of.

Middle age? Check!

Normal? Mostly.

Grey? Nope, bald as an egg, but it would be grey if I had any. Do eyebrows count?
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Old 12-15-2017, 12:07 AM
Ram41662 Ram41662 is offline
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Well, this worked before...let's try it again.

Oh, and after looking again all I see is HOURS of sanding in my near future..
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Old 12-15-2017, 11:01 AM
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The good news is... that big ass spider kept the other bugs under control.
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Old 12-15-2017, 11:17 AM
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When you develop a plan please post. I already see some significant issues beyond clean up that need attention early on.

Location?
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Originally Posted by Ram41662 View Post
Nope, bald as an egg, but it would be grey if I had any
I prefer to think of it as going solar
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prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22
Had my hands in a few others

Last edited by ndutton; 12-15-2017 at 11:20 AM.
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Old 12-15-2017, 10:11 PM
Ram41662 Ram41662 is offline
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Ndutton, yeh, I see a sole that needs to be replaced, a stress crack on the side of the keel (thank God its lead cored), a complete strip off and recoat below the waterline, water damage everywhere, and from what I can see it needs new wiring. Oh, and that's just "100 foot list", the stuff you can cee 100 feet away. I know there's more, hence why I said the wife bought me a major project she calls a boat.

I'm planning on doing a more formal survey once I get it back to the shop. The plan was to do that today, but about 1-1/2 hours from the boatyard I got caught behind a multi-car pile-up. By the time traffic was moving again it was too late to get into the yard. I'll try again Monday.
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Old 12-16-2017, 10:44 AM
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The weeping at the hull-keel joint is an issue. If water can weep out it can leak in too. The keel is 100% lead, bolted on. You'll find a resin-phenolic layer on the outside applied at the factory prior to attaching the keel. The problem apparent in the picture is not the keel but rather its attachment to the hull.

Pay close attention to the deck core at the upper chainplates and the integrity of the main bulkhead in the area of the chainplates. Water incursion is obvious and has likely resulted in rot. The deck core in your vintage boats was garden variety plywood, NOT balsa core.

When available please take some engine pictures. Be sure to draw some fuel out of the tank and check its quality. The original N27 had a steel tank so moisture inside can create considerable problems.
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Last edited by ndutton; 12-16-2017 at 11:15 AM.
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  #13   IP: 173.30.41.140
Old 12-16-2017, 06:49 PM
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Thanks for the heads up. You're right in the wheel house with me. My plan was to drop the keel and most likely replace glass wrap, while also inspecting and more than likely repairing the keelson.

Because this was an "as is" sale, and because the yard didn't want to take the liability of me crawling all over the boat in its cradle, I've only had a VERY basic inspection, so I'm still as much in the dark as to the little yacht's condition as anyone else in this forum. I really wanted to start alleviating that situation this weekend, but the Fates and Elements conspired against me, so that will have to wait.

Just as an FYI, as I mentioned before, if upon close inspection the turns out to be derelict, or at least a monster money pit, what I have in it now is less than the salvage. I really hope that's not the case. Also, I'm set-up a bit different than most when it comes to what assets i have at my disposal. A couple of things that will help are the 10-ton bridge crane in my shop and the heavy duty spreader beam I have for it. I can easily sling this little boat out of its cradle. I also have a 15-ton capacity diesel fork lift. It can more than easily move the boat in cradle. I have a lot of large industrial machines around my shop (diesel air compressors, sand and slurry blasters, 150K indirect fire heaters, etc), so I think i can tackle just about anything that makes sense to do to restore this boat.

From what little I did get to test the hull seems sound and no pox, but I was told water has been getting in for quite a while, so the inside is saturated. Rapping with a nylon mallet gave me a set of nice, sharp reports, so delamination isn't high on my worry list, at least not yet.
There is some oil-canning near the stern due to long standing in a poorly engineered cradle and addition weight of a water logged hull. This is why I'm planning on slurry blasting the hull clean below the waterline so it can dry out before I proceed.

I suspect some separations, or at least seal failures, will be found around the deck/hull joint. The chainplates are a mess, so they are most likely the source of most of the water getting in.

I also suspect deck and bulkhead rot. Although these can be daunting projects, they're not outside my skill set. I'm weighting options for core material if, and most likely when, this problem arrises.

All of this is just speculation at this time. I really want to get this boat back into my shop so I can get my hands on it.

Last edited by Ram41662; 12-16-2017 at 08:12 PM.
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Old 12-16-2017, 10:07 PM
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I wouldn't worry too much about the hull. It's 100% hand laid fiberglass with no core material so the saturation you mentioned should be non existent. The hull and deck joint is comprised of outward flanges on both the hull and deck bonded with fiberglass mat between the flanges and riveted with backing roves every 4" or so. It's one of the best joint systems I've ever seen, pretty much bulletproof.

The N27 is a well built boat, I don't think you'll be disappointed.
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Old 12-16-2017, 11:50 PM
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One no cost thing you can do is check the fire extinguisher in the cabin for the recall. You may needed it when you start doing smoke test on the systems.

Yours looks almost as bad as my project on the inside when I picked it up.
Two trips to the dump just to figure out what I had.
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Old 12-17-2017, 11:16 AM
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Your wife’s plans may be much more sinister than you think.

My boat is five years older than yours, and has certainly had her share of structural projects over the years, but with no sentimental value attached to this boat from your side even I see no point of this restoration project, with or without your impressive shop facilities.

Not suggesting it cannot be done. Not suggesting that you can’t do it. But regardless of cost I think it will dawn on you that the end result (a 45-year-old 27’ boat) will not be a good use of 500+ hours of anybody’s time when there are thousands of boats available that need work but that are starting in sailable condition. Whether you prefer the sailing part of sailboat ownership, or the maintenance part of it, those are better starting points.

And I think my 500 hour guess is optimistic. Core repair, bulkhead replacement, chain plate fabrication, standing and running rigging replacement, engine rehab, quadrant diagnosis, rudder analysis, rewiring, sole replacement, deck painting, keel rebedding...whew. Almost every one of those by itself is an ambitious winter/spring project for us who haul out at the end of the season.

If you go with Plan B, salvaging, I suggest you hire a food taster too because your wife may also have a Plan B in mind.
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Old 12-17-2017, 02:00 PM
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Post #16 has a lot of wisdom.
A boat is a hole in the water into which one pours money.
Don't start down the road unless you are sure you can complete the journey.
The other side of the coin is it is nice to have a hobby.

TRUE GRIT
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Old 12-17-2017, 03:34 PM
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Thanks all for the input, I do appreciate it all.

As for cost vs return, that's not where I'm going. The fact is the return will never match the cost and labor involved with this project. That's something I knew well before I even considered diving in. Oh, and I do have a passion for not only the boat, but for the project as well. I'm sorry if it sounded otherwise, I was trying to stay objective.

I like using, and every once and a while stretching, my skill set. Building things gives me a rush. I've got 50 years of construction/fabrication experience under my belt. You dont do something that long without like doing it.

One consideration of why I'm interested in an older boat goes to what ndutton mentioned; the solid hand-laid hull. Many of these "classic plastic" boats were built with extra frp due to a lack of knowledge as to where they could cut corners and not compromise integrity. As weird as it sounds, after talking with several knowledgeable shipwrights, opinion is many of these older hulls are stronger than a lot of newer vessels. This gives me a good foundation to build on. Since the interior isn't in good condition I won't feel any regret doing a full strip out. This will help identify where the leaks are, facilitate alleviating said leaks, then gives me clean pallet to create upon. I can very easily upgrade/rewire the entire system and add some modern elements, like LED lighting and alternative charging systems. I can also customize the interior to my and the wife's Iiking. This also gives me very deep understanding of every element of this little yacht, that's something I can't even start to put a price on. Knowledge is my gold and my drug of choice.

This is also a "gateway" boat. Once we see if the Missus can handle the wet life, I'm planning on looking for a bigger boat to use for blue water sailing. I miss sailing the Caribbean. It seems like a nice way to spend my post-work years.
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Old 12-17-2017, 04:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ram41662 View Post
One consideration of why I'm interested in an older boat goes to what ndutton mentioned; the solid hand-laid hull. Many of these "classic plastic" boats were built with extra frp due to a lack of knowledge as to where they could cut corners and not compromise integrity.
I don't think it was not knowing where to cut corners but rather the good builders knowing NOT to cut corners. As a glaring negative example of boat construction of the same era as your Newport I offer the entire Venture/MacGregor product line.
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As weird as it sounds, after talking with several knowledgeable shipwrights, opinion is many of these older hulls are stronger than a lot of newer vessels.
Another factor to that end is back in the heyday of fiberglass boat construction the factories were staffed with and run by boat builders. Once the accountants and lawyers took control . . . well, you know what I mean. Just before the economic recession of the late 1970's Islander Yachts realized they were never going to compete with Frank Butler's Catalina Yachts so they stopped trying. Instead they decided to build a well appointed high quality boat and demanded a price. Once their new products got into the market stream they became the #2 dollar volume sailboat manufacturer in the country @ approximately $15 million annual production (of course Catalina was #1). It wasn't long before the failing economy did them in. Out the factory door they were damned good boats.
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Old 12-17-2017, 05:23 PM
JOHN COOKSON JOHN COOKSON is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ram41662 View Post
One consideration of why I'm interested in an older boat goes to what ndutton mentioned; the solid hand-laid hull. Many of these "classic plastic" boats were built with extra frp due to a lack of knowledge as to where they could cut corners and not compromise integrity. As weird as it sounds, after talking with several knowledgeable shipwrights, opinion is many of these older hulls are stronger than a lot of newer vessels.
I've heard a sort of summary saying when referring to "classic plastic" boats. True or not I don't know........

"The boats was built before they found out how thin they could make them".

TRUE GRIT
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Old 12-17-2017, 05:43 PM
Ram41662 Ram41662 is offline
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Again, I can't thank you all enough for the input, the encouragement, and the reasoned doubts. This let's me see how others think, and a sounding board is a good thing.

Now, this thread has gotten a bit long for "Introductions", so I'm going to move the discussion over to "General Interest" considering this project has the potential scope to cover a lot of general interest items. Please look for "Off the deep end, part II" so we can keep the dialog open.

Thanks,
Rick
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