#76
IP: 75.147.56.13
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I don't. I have to $$$ to get a mechanic to get the valves to valve. Been through two cans of "Sea Foam" with no joy. The pattern is that the engine refuses to start after sitting idle for more than 1 or 2 days. Run it on Sunday and I can be assured that by Friday night, I can crank all I want and that engine will. not. start. That blows the weekend, then the mechanic during the following week, the bills and then MAYBE, i'll have an engine the following weekend. Maybe.
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#77
IP: 137.200.32.54
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Did you see my questions?
First off, why did you buy a manifold? |
#78
IP: 66.235.22.17
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When you come back to the boat and it won't start, do you squirt a little starting fluid down the carb to see if it will kick over that way? I'd highly suggest it. One of 3 things will happen:
1. It will kick over enough to get things moving then run on it's own. 2. It will kick over, then stop when the spray is gone. This means you've got a fuel problem somewhere from the carb back. 3. It won't kick over at all. This means you've got a spark/ignition problem. If nothing else, this will at least narrow down the issue.
__________________
"A ship in the harbor is safe ... but that's not what ships are built for. |
The Following User Says Thank You to wristwister For This Useful Post: | ||
Dave Neptune (09-11-2018) |
#79
IP: 75.147.56.13
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The old one was leaking (dripping) out what I was told was a winterization port and the leak could not be stopped. The sea water was landing on the top of the fuel pump.
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#80
IP: 75.147.56.13
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#81
IP: 108.172.150.97
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move on?
No disrespect, but my impression is that you don't want to learn how to keep these old engines running and instead want it all fixed and reliable as a kitchen appliance.
Without mindful preventive attention, you will continue to have problems - mostly minor and easily repairable. Most of us on this forum get a feeling of self-reliance and satisfaction from expanding our knowledge, heading off problems, and fixing issues. I don't know about your aptitude, but your attitude seems incompatible with A4 ownership. Rather than continued resentment that these engines need care, I would suggest you get a boat with a new outboard for ease of service. Problems will still happen, but knowledgeable service will be easier to find.
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Marty 1967 Tartan 27 Bowen Island, BC |
The Following User Says Thank You to Marty Levenson For This Useful Post: | ||
ndutton (09-11-2018) |
#82
IP: 137.200.32.54
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Well THAT would have been a good point to consult us. If the freeze plugs are leaking, that certainly doesn't require a whole new manifold if the manifold itself is intact. If the drain plug was leaking and/or the freeze plugs because the manifold was cracked, that can indicate the engine was allowed to freeze at some point and you may have one or more cracks in the block as well. Which is also why you need to pressure test the block. The symptoms seem similar to what I had with an A4 that had leaks into the cylinders.
Last edited by joe_db; 09-11-2018 at 11:30 AM. |
#83
IP: 137.200.32.54
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I agree, I don't think the OP is well suited for old boat maintenance. Something like a J-22 with almost no systems and an outboard that can be hauled to a shop or replaced would probably get him a lot more sailing with a lot less hassle. The other idea is just buy a new Moyer engine and get a local yard to install it. YMMV on if that is worthwhile to you. |
#84
IP: 24.152.132.140
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Marty, that's exactly what I observed three months ago.
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Neil 1977 Catalina 30 San Pedro, California prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22 Had my hands in a few others |
#85
IP: 108.45.44.91
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I know you're not mechanically inclined, but as you can see, these procedures are pretty simple. And even if you don't do them, this info can be passed on to whoever does work on the engine.
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@(^.^)@ Ed 1977 Pearson P-323 "Dolce Vita" with rebuilt Atomic-4 Last edited by edwardc; 09-12-2018 at 09:25 AM. |
#86
IP: 72.194.219.196
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This is basic troubleshooting. Any "mechanic" should know how to do these procedures. Either the "mechanic" is not to skilled or is taking you for a money grabbing ride. TRUE GRIT |
#87
IP: 75.147.56.13
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#88
IP: 24.152.132.140
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I understand you've decided the engine is beyond hope or otherwise possessed but for the mechanics you've hired to be unable to figure out what is essentially a lawn mower engine with a few more cylinders is more of a comment on the mechanics than the engine. Please realize that there were somewhere around 40,000 of these engines made with approximately 20,000 still in service many decades later. I appreciate these mechanics are professional but all that means is they charge for their services, not that they have the necessary experience or skills and frankly judging by the information you have provided, they don't. It's my opinion and I dare say an opinion shared by others on this forum that they've taken advantage of the situation. Too bad they don't charge on the basis of results instead of unskilled hours.
The mechanic(s) removed the head multiple times? That's ridiculous. If it truly needed to be removed a second time it means they didn't do the job right the first time. As for no market for a C30 with an A4, consider that the boat is 35 ~ 40 years old so there was no market when you bought it. No surprise there. As an example, I bought my C30 thirteen years ago in sailing condition (meaning complete) with a running engine for $5K. There's your market. What I get out of the purchase and subsequent years of ownership is pleasure equity, not $$. What I want for you Either find the skilled local support you so desperately need to be able to enjoy this boat or rid yourself of the aggravation. This is supposed to be fun.
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Neil 1977 Catalina 30 San Pedro, California prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22 Had my hands in a few others |
#89
IP: 72.194.219.196
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The ignition system and the fuel system have two parts. The boat's part and the engine's part. If the boat's part of the system is not working correctly the engine will not start or run. For example if there is an intermittent short circuit in the key or wiring to the coil the engine will not start sometimes. TRUE GRIT |
#90
IP: 137.200.32.38
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OTOH my wag right now is it froze over the winter and water seeps into the engine when it sits.
Or it could be something totally different The basic issue is the OP is not enjoying his boat. This is not his job, it is hobby and he seems to have not realized what owning a cruising sailboat entails. * this reminds me of a friend with a Model A Ford. He quickly learned that if he wanted a reliable car to drive, he either needed to learn to work on it or get a new car because the local shops were not good with cars from 1930 and he couldn't afford the time or money to get the car to a specialist shop that knew the car. Last edited by joe_db; 09-13-2018 at 07:27 AM. |
#91
IP: 75.147.56.13
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It's just that I don't know what to do with what amounts to a 30' paperweight. |
#92
IP: 75.147.56.13
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#93
IP: 155.186.126.158
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Gem555, I bought an A-4 that was seized while inside an E35 MkII. It took a week to get it running again and it did not fail me once in 34 years and is now serving the new owner.
Not a dis on you however if you settled down and learned to do a couple of diagnostics and possibly post a pic of the engine so it's condition can be seen. You have seen all sorts of suggestions and we have seen little in actual information. These checks are very simple and once performed an understanding of the beastie will manifest and the use can begin. I feel if you spent the time you are wasting on mechanics trying to understand the basics you would be up and running. Get the BOOK, start from scratch and you will be way ahead financially and on the water with "self confidence" one of the greatest values afloat! The forum is about assistance and learning because it can work. I suggest another go at it. Dave Neptune |
#94
IP: 137.103.82.194
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If you want a new diesel installed, go for it. If the installation is done right and the routine maintenance is done correctly, the engine should be trouble free for a long time. If you want a new Atomic 4 installed, go for it. If the installation is done right and the routine maintenance is done correctly, the engine should be trouble free for a long time. Right now you have an antique boat with an antique engine that has had what seems like poor or no maintenance for a long time. No marina will want to touch it because they assume two things: 1. You won't be willing to pay to fix it right. 2. If they do a band-aid fix to get you going, you'll be back when the engine malfunctions again blaming them. And this assumes they even have a mechanic that knows anything about these engines, which they may not. You have some choices here: 1. Come up with somewhere between about $8,000 and $15,000 for a new engine, installed. 2. Continue to pay slips and storage for an unusable boat. 3. Donate boat to charity. 4. Cut the boat up and sell the rig and lead. The keel is worth about $1/pound. 5. Just quit paying the slip fee and ignore all calls from the marina and they'll do #4 for you. If you don't pick 1 or 2, now your choices are: A - Pay a lot more money for a much newer boat with a *supported engine*. Old diesels can be all the trouble you have, times 2, plus no parts available and no forums and STILL no mechanic will touch it. B- Join a sailing club with boats for you to use if such a thing exists there. C - Buy a much simpler boat like an Ensign or J-80 or similar and sail instead of fix. D - Find a new hobby that makes you happy instead of frustrated* * don't choose "buy an old airplane" though. You thing you have expensive issues now |
#95
IP: 66.235.22.17
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Gem, if the boat were a few thousand miles to the left, I'd be all over that Cat 30 of yours. I'd offer you $4K for it, you'd probably take it out of frustration, I'd rebuild that engine for ~$1500 and pop it back in, and sell the boat for $12K (going rate for a decent Cat30 with good A4 around here). You need to find a "me" in Maine!
__________________
"A ship in the harbor is safe ... but that's not what ships are built for. |
#96
IP: 75.147.56.13
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"The mechanic(s) removed the head multiple times? That's ridiculous. If it truly needed to be removed a second time it means they didn't do the job right the first time."
We found the valves kept sticking and could not be unstuck even with can(s) of sea foam/MMO in the gas. Basically discovered it's a problem with A4 engines. Thus the multi removal. I shut off the water before i shut off the engine, replaced the little purge/siphon valve under the sink and fog the engine after each use. Hope this helps. |
#97
IP: 24.152.132.140
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Instead of continually blaming the engine, consider that sticking valves are the result of a water incursion (not the engine's fault) and sticking after repair indicates a poor repair (also not the engine's fault). Have a water incursion in your new diesel and see what happens.
__________________
Neil 1977 Catalina 30 San Pedro, California prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22 Had my hands in a few others Last edited by ndutton; 09-13-2018 at 11:15 AM. |
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to ndutton For This Useful Post: | ||
joe_db (09-13-2018), Marty Levenson (09-13-2018) |
#98
IP: 75.147.56.13
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#99
IP: 137.103.82.194
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So the boat is for sale?
Are you trying to kluge the engine to run enough to sell her? I think that is probably how you GOT the boat |
#100
IP: 137.103.82.194
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I still think this engine was allowed to freeze and leaks water into the cylinders somehow. |
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Dead A4. Again!!! |
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