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  #26   IP: 107.77.97.58
Old 09-17-2019, 02:38 PM
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No, I think it's the big one that covers all the ports.
https://moyermarine.com/product/mani...t-gask_08_147/
It will be a pain for a beginner, sorry. Lots of rusty bolts and blood

But, yes, order that one too. They are all old at this point. The folks at Moyer may advise better which ones to get.


I'm off to work now, bye,
R.

Edit:
This is all assuming I am correct in thinking Neil is right. YOU should confirm this leak yourself.
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Last edited by lat 64; 09-17-2019 at 02:41 PM.
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Old 09-17-2019, 03:57 PM
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Before diving into that exhaust manifold gasket, you should be able to easily confirm that this is indeed an exhaust leak. If you feel around the joint between the block and the exhaust manifold while the engine is running, you should be able to clearly feel the exhaust leak. If access is too limited, a couple feet of tubing, with one end in your ear and the other end poking arounb the manifold, should do the trick.
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Old 09-17-2019, 06:25 PM
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I don't think the head gasket or exhaust valve hanging open is off the table yet. There is minimal combustion pressure on the manifold when the valves are seating properly. Exhaust gases are merely pushed out by the piston on the exhaust stroke (note: well AFTER combustion has occurred). For high pressure combustion gases to escape it has to happen at TDC which is when the valves are supposed to be sealed. This is where the compression test may point us in a direction.
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Last edited by ndutton; 09-17-2019 at 06:41 PM.
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Old 09-17-2019, 08:55 PM
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After putting on a headset and listening to your video, I agree with Neil and Russ that it is a spitting sound and not a knock. The lowered oil pressure is most likely the result of the oil naturally thinning over a long motor trip. A compression test of all of the cylinders should show if there is a head gasket problem in the #4 hole. It is also not unusual for a manifold gasket leak to show up at the rear of the engine first. Depending on how much clearance you have on that side of the engine, removing the manifold may require removing the three block studs at the same time.
Tom
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Old 09-18-2019, 07:39 PM
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Old 09-18-2019, 07:51 PM
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This is all great! Thank you all for the help! I may just be optimistic but it is more of a psst sound. I looked up someone who had an engine knock with an A4 and it sounds more violent.

I am going to try out the "hand" test to see if i can feel any exhaust releasing. I will also check the nuts with my torque wrench (maybe a nuts is loose-if i am lucky). I am also going to run a compression test too. I will post my results (probably this weekend).

If i do feel there is some exhaust coming from in between the block and manifold i will replace the gaskets. Planning on ordering gaskets for the manifold, one for the exhaust, and (maybe) one for the carburetor.

In the meantime, for my edification, does anyone have a good guide of how to replace the gasket? I know i need to remove it completely but should i also remove the carburetor or can that stay attached to the manifold.


Im excited to get working on the engine! Bring on the rust, blood, and a bit of frustration!
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Old 09-19-2019, 11:15 AM
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I would remove the carb first. The manifold is a big heavy part, and you would risk damaging the carb if you left it attached.
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  #32   IP: 107.77.97.58
Old 09-20-2019, 12:06 PM
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" A good Guide..."

As often happens with a new member, we heartily recommend buying the Manual offered by Moyer Marine. It is written with owners in mind. It would be best to buy and read it completely before starting any repairs of this sort. So many esoteric problems can be avoided or at least foreseen to make it worthwhile.

Do ALL the diagnostics before you tear this apart. That is, make sure where it is leaking—compression test, feeling for leakage etc.
I wonder if soapy water sprayed on the suspect area would help find a leak(??)

If it turns out to be a leaking head gasket, then you can have the opportunity to examine valves too when the head is removed. But, that's a lot of work, so make sure it's necessary first.
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"Since when is napping doing nothing?"
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  #33   IP: 134.41.129.142
Old 09-21-2019, 05:35 AM
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My friend Rick had a similar noise a couple of weeks back. Same noise, but it was sloppy, meaning wasn't regular...tap tap tap tap..pause tap tap tap. After much deliberation he took the head off and it was number 4 exhaust valve stuck / sticking. He cleaned it up, and I put the head back on for him and torqued about a week ago. He put the rest of it back together.

He had to take it form there. I cleaned the carb for him as well as it wouldn't start. I've been working quiet a bit lately so wasn't able to give him the full attention. He got it running yesterday, purring like a kitten. He'd put the distributor cap on wrong...screwed up the wiring. I should have noticed that but he's always at his engine and I should never have overlooked it. He'd spent a couple of days trying to get it running and I wasn't around.
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Old 09-25-2019, 01:58 PM
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Hi All! I stopped by the boat last night and preformed a couple of test. I tried the hand over the manifold and the soapy water.

When i felt my hand over the manifold and behind it i couldn't feel any exhaust. When i added some soapy water to the area in between i saw a lot of bubbles forming towards the back of the manifold, next to the 4th spark plug.

Here is a couple videos i took of it. Please note, most of the smoke you are seeing is steam from the water... if not obvious.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1pX...u8mXgWmy0EjM7w
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Bu...HtUK5oPCXPVMOI


It would seem like i have a gasket failure, resulting in an exhaust leak. I am wondering if there is a way to patch the area instead of installing a whole new gasket? Something like caulking but made for this reason

A couple more thoughts to the tapping. When i was listening to it last night i felt like i heard the tapping of two metal pieces rather than psst psst, i couldve been mistaken though. Something to note, when i turn up the RPM the tapping does increase to a high frequency. It could be possible that i also have a valve tap and a gasket failure. Could anyone shed some light on this situation?

Here is the video i took of the engine at a high RPM
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1_qo...ew?usp=sharing


Thanks!
Chris

Last edited by chrisoelder; 09-25-2019 at 08:08 PM. Reason: extra detail
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Old 09-27-2019, 11:02 AM
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If a compression test shows good compression in #4, this may only be an exhaust gasket, not a head gasket. Caulking is unlikely to work, but a new exhaust gasket is not that hard to do. Your second video shows more bubbles in that area. I may have a similar issue. Lately my CO detector alarm goes off sometimes. I will have to look into that area.
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Old 09-27-2019, 12:16 PM
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That's kind of what I expected. Great way to clean off the engine BTW.

One thing to be aware of though; that is a hot place on the manifold and you must make sure the bubbles are forming from a leak, not boiling water.

I would have expected more spray from such a test(I have never done one myself).
So, consider that the majority of the leak may be on the underside, shooting downward towards the fuel pump.

I agree with capnward, goop will not fix it even for a while. But, perhaps stuffing some fire-resistant material like exhaust wrapping around it for a test will change the noise level a bit and work to help confirm this diagnostic.

Im not ruling out head gasket failure yet. A compression test will give you a comparison evaluation and show good numbers, but pressures are much greater when an engine is running—300 psi or more. A tiny leak in the head gasket would squeak up when running I think.

Still, I think you are closing on the issue.

Keep on,

Russ
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Whiskeyjack a '68 Columbia 36 rebuilt A-4 with 2:1

"Since when is napping doing nothing?"

Last edited by lat 64; 09-27-2019 at 12:19 PM.
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  #37   IP: 107.77.97.107
Old 09-27-2019, 12:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ndutton View Post
I don't think the head gasket or exhaust valve hanging open is off the table yet. There is minimal combustion pressure on the manifold when the valves are seating properly. Exhaust gases are merely pushed out by the piston on the exhaust stroke (note: well AFTER combustion has occurred). For high pressure combustion gases to escape it has to happen at TDC which is when the valves are supposed to be sealed. This is where the compression test may point us in a direction.
I think Neil(as usual) was on to this back in post #28.

Also, never rule out that more than one thing can go wrong at the same time. It's an old engine.
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"Since when is napping doing nothing?"
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Old 09-27-2019, 04:53 PM
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Hey everyone, thanks for the advice!

I am going to get a spray bottle and give that a shot this weekend. I will also be able to perform a compression test. That should really help figure out whats going on.

Thinking on a possible valve tap - does anyone have any thoughts on the video of the higher RPM with the sound becoming less apparent? Do you think that it might still be related to a failed gasket?

Ill have more info tomorrow or Sunday!

Thanks everyone!


PS: I am ordering the guide with some new gaskets, depending on how the compression tests go
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Old 09-30-2019, 03:55 PM
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Hey everyone,

Went back down to the boat this weekend and gave the spray bottle test and a compression test. While there i checked my manifold nuts, the 2nd and 1st nuts were a bit loose and tightened them to the 30lbs on my torque wrench. Also i put a bit of MMO in the 4th spark plug chamber and let it sit there for 25 mins (maybe it would unstick anything that was stuck). Engine started up fine and help rpm with no stalls.

The compression test came back with the same exact reading for all chambers, about 50-52. If Im understanding this means that my issue is after the piston, so either exhaust gasket or a valve tap. Please correct me if i am wrong!

Also i tried the spray bottle but i don't think i am getting any conclusive results. I cant tell if im just not getting enough in there or too much water that it boils. Either way i took a couple videos here below:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1ue...4hwVasiqpIsEJU
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Ga...RQ6KswF7aol7Rs
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1L4...jnYPElY8BeQS5f


Also please note, the tapping is becoming a bit different. Less consistent, any idea to what is going on with that and does it help determine the issues?
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Old 10-01-2019, 12:30 AM
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Compression test: A bit low; but if they are all similar readings, good. Low numbers might be just a tool-technique issue.

Tapping/pisst sound: it's changed Now it's syncopated! it's got a jazz beat! Really, I think it is now not always making a sound on each revolution.

Less sound/volume: You tightened the manifold nuts. That may have actually put a squeeze on the faulty gasket, making it a tad quieter(?)

A word of caution; that spray bottle may be killing the spark. Try to keep the water off the spark plugs.
Well, at least you're getting the engine clean. Might be time to use some tools though.

Good luck with this. I won't be around a computer for about a month, so no responses from me for awhile.

Russ
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Whiskeyjack a '68 Columbia 36 rebuilt A-4 with 2:1

"Since when is napping doing nothing?"

Last edited by lat 64; 10-01-2019 at 12:36 AM.
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  #41   IP: 97.93.70.7
Old 10-01-2019, 11:24 AM
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A compression test should be done with the choke open the throttle at full, all spark plugs removed and a good battery.

2 tests should be done, the first one dry and the second test with some oil sprayed into the cylinders.
The first test checks to overall sealing of the cylinder. The wet test will let you know if any low readings were related to valve seating or ring seating.

Did you have the manifold completely open and all of the plugs out when doing your test?

Dave Neptune
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Old 10-01-2019, 12:58 PM
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@lat 64 Enjoy your time away from screens! Hope you are taking a trip somewhere nice! Thank you for the help and make sure to check back with me to see how it went. Thanks again and have a great one!

@Dave Neptune I actually followed this youtube tutorial with doing the compression test. Didnt know about the other tests
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovvXnd7AhiU

Thanks!
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