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  #1   IP: 23.135.32.137
Old 08-20-2019, 01:51 PM
ajgaines ajgaines is offline
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Rebuilding exhaust system for Catalina 30(hot section)

Hello! I am the proud owner of a Catalina 30 that has an atomic 4 engine. Somehow water got into the cylinders and oil and I am tearing it apart to get the engine to turn, check the damage, etc etc. When I tried to take the exhaust section off it literally shattered into pieces as the previous owners made one out of something or other that I guess wasn't meant for exhaust...? The bible(moyer manual) says to used galvanized steel or "black steel." Is this just the stuff from home depot? Is there a better place to buy this stuff? It looks like they reused the hot water entry portion as that held up pretty well, but the rest of the exhaust had turned black and will chick away with some metal persuasion.

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There is very little space in the Cat 4 to make a big fancy hot exhaust system. In the bible it says to have the water enter 4" above the water lift and have a total of 12" from the top of the exhaust down to the water lift. It looks like the current/past configuration was about 2" and 4" respectively. This would require going up about 12" first as the exit from the exhaust manifold is about level with the entrance to the water lift exhaust. The factory ones sold by Catalina don't come close to meeting these specs. I figure that it is possible to build one and just take out the shelves from the kitchen or something. Should I just go with the like 4" factory setting or rearrange everything/go through the immense hassle of building a 12" one?
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Old 08-20-2019, 02:28 PM
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You can build a new CAT 30 exhaust with 1-1/4" Black Iron or Galvanized pipe from you local pipe and supply store, wrapped with fiberglass insulation to keep the heat from the boat hull. You can use an insert section from Moyer, like shown in your picture, or a Black Iron "Y" with a reducer. Space is tight but workable.

David
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Old 08-20-2019, 04:56 PM
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Most of our exhausts are built of black iron pipe and do not last forever. I figure replacing mine every 5 years or so.
Galvanized pipe releases a poisonous gas for the first few hours of use from the zinc. It really stinks and gives you an illness called something like "metal fume fever".
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Old 08-20-2019, 07:55 PM
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Pictures of my Catalina 30 exhaust project. Please consider 3/8"-16 stainless set screws with washers and hex nuts instead of flange bolts for the attachment to the manifold. The strategy on a Catalina 30 is to get as much rise as possible within the limitations of the galley cabinet. It will never be ideal but we do what we can.

Old black iron pipe and new stainless pipe..Note that the USCG and ABYC require schedule 80 pipe which I would not expect to find at Home Depot.
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And the finished stainless pipe installed
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1977 Catalina 30
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prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22
Had my hands in a few others
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Old 08-20-2019, 11:21 PM
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Al Schober Al Schober is offline
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Two choices on exhaust material - black iron (low cost but on borrowed time after 5 years) or stainless. Don't use galvanized.
Without a waterlift, getting height to the water injection point is the key to satisfactory operation. If you've got room to install the Moyer mixing can, that's ideal (in my book).
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Old 08-21-2019, 05:59 AM
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"Don't use galvanized"

because it gives off toxic fumes when it is heated

please be safe

Peter
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Old 08-21-2019, 08:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter View Post
"Don't use galvanized"

because it gives off toxic fumes when it is heated

please be safe

Peter
Metal fume fever is a condition in which the sufferer has influenza type symptoms - a raised temperature, chills, aches and pains, nausea and dizziness. It is caused by exposure to the fume of certain metals - commonly zinc.
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Old 08-21-2019, 09:50 AM
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exhaust pipe in fresh water

I have owned my boat, sailing in the great lakes, for 20 years, and have never rep[laced my exhaust pipes. Is the 5 years or so mentioned for salt water? What is the expected lifetime in fresh water?
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Old 08-21-2019, 09:54 AM
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Yes, they're referring to salt water. FYI, the old, rusted black iron hot pipe in my picture was after 14 years in salt water and still serviceable.
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1977 Catalina 30
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prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22
Had my hands in a few others
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Old 08-21-2019, 12:43 PM
ajgaines ajgaines is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ndutton View Post
Pictures of my Catalina 30 exhaust project. Please consider 3/8"-16 stainless set screws with washers and hex nuts instead of flange bolts for the attachment to the manifold. The strategy on a Catalina 30 is to get as much rise as possible within the limitations of the galley cabinet. It will never be ideal but we do what we can.

Old black iron pipe and new stainless pipe..Note that the USCG and ABYC require schedule 80 pipe which I would not expect to find at Home Depot.

And the finished stainless pipe installed

Thanks for all the helpful responses! So you used stainless for the pipe? Will that last longer than the black iron? I haven't been able to find either at my local hardware store, maybe I need to look further. Do you have any suggestions for the measuring process? It looks like you got yours fitter perfectly, I just have a simple tape measure so I'm not sure I can be that exact..
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Old 08-21-2019, 01:32 PM
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Hello Ajgaines.

I've replaced the hot section of my exhaust (on a Tartan 34c) twice over the last 20-odd years, both times with black iron, not stainless. The first time, which was shortly after we bought the boat, everything was seized so I cut the pipe off at the exhaust flange and brought the entire assembly to a local plumbing supply store. They matched all of the sections.

The second time was over 15 years later when I rebuilt the engine. There were no obvious signs of failure, but I don't regret replacing the pipe. The condition of my pipe may be due to the fact that I flush the engine with fresh water after each run. Others with more knowledge may correct me on this. If I had it to do over again, I would probably go with stainless, as did Neil.

best regards,

jack.
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Old 08-21-2019, 02:24 PM
ajgaines ajgaines is offline
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Thanks Jack! So to recap what you all have said...

Material: #1 is stainless steel, #2 is black iron, #3 and kind of a no-go is galvanized steel.

Size for rebuild in Cat 30: Use what tiny space is between the exhaust manifold and water-lift. I think I will try to raise it maybe .5" above where it currently is as long as it won't be touching the wood above it.

Where to get the supplies: local plumbing store/they can just size and rebuild the old one(but mine was a pretty poor fitting originally.

Thanks for the insights! I have a huge project so I'm sure you will see lots more of my posts.

Cheers
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Old 08-21-2019, 04:39 PM
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Kind of a no-go? Nope, galvanized is absolutely verboten under penalty of self inflicted death.

McMaster-Carr Supply has all the sch 80 pipe you need in iron, steel and stainless. They also have a 750° graphite based thread sealant. I measured my components with a tape measure, the same as you but be careful to allow for the dimensional reduction when one piece threads into another.

MMI and hot rod shops have the insulating wrap. https://moyermarine.com/product/exha...exht_01-0_455/

More info in this thread.

edit: my water injection is a custom welded fabrication so unless you have access to the necessary welding equipment for the pipe material you select, go with the MMI injector fitting.
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1977 Catalina 30
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prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22
Had my hands in a few others

Last edited by ndutton; 08-21-2019 at 06:57 PM.
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Old 08-21-2019, 08:02 PM
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I did galvanized once. I had to motor around with all the hatches open including the cockpit lockers for about 3 hours before the stink burned off. It was NASTY Didn't get too sick, but it wasn't my best morning either.....
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Old 09-08-2019, 05:59 PM
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I have taken my engine apart to just about nuts and bolts. I am realizing that I don't really have the know-how to figure out what needs to be done with the parts now. I am starting to side with the idea of buying a rebuilt A4, throw it in and just use that. However, I am almost certain that the original issue with my current engine was water backflow which I think is common in the Cat 30's. That makes me terrified that I would put the money/time/effort into getting a rebuilt one, install it, and have it flood with water instantly too.

What measures should I take to ensure that the exhaust system won't be an issue if I take this course of action. As far as I can tell it's not blocked. I also don't see a valve at the highest point of the exhaust as I've heard is common with some of these boats. Should I remove the waterlift? I can see inside and don't see much water in there.

Any advice would be highly appreciated. Cheers!
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Old 09-09-2019, 09:49 AM
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The water incursion happens from an extended crank/no start episode. The impeller in the raw water pump spins with the starter, pushes water thru the engine and out the exhaust pipe at the mixer..since the engine is not running to expel the water from the water lift muffler, it fills up and backs into the hot exhaust section..If the previous owner did not immediately get the water out of the cylinders/crankcase and get the engine running you end up with a frozen engine like you are likely dealing with.

The "fix" is to close the raw water intake valve until the engine is running. But, once it is running move as quickly down to the valve as you can so you don't burn up the impeller from running it dry.

If you get the engine tuned correctly so that it starts fairly quickly (5-10 seconds) you usually don't have to worry about water incursion from cranking. I typically leave my valve closed after the engine has been sitting a long time..she tends to take a little longer on the cranking after a long sit.
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"Twice Around" - '77 Catalina 30, #511 with original A-4 & MMI manifold.
She is even happier with fresh paint on the topsides!

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  #17   IP: 24.152.132.140
Old 09-09-2019, 10:01 AM
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Shawn is, as usual, exactly right. Make your exhaust system as good as it can be within the design limitations of the Catalina 30 and the rest is up to you, how you operate your engine. Your own practices are the real risk.
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1977 Catalina 30
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prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22
Had my hands in a few others
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Old 09-12-2019, 10:19 PM
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Thumbs up

Some of that comes from knowing the PO of my boat, and also knowing he did exactly as described..cranked too long, got water in #4, let it sit, had to pull the head, and beat on pistons to get things moving again, and thus lower compression in that cylinder on my engine. I do my best not to repeat.
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"Twice Around" - '77 Catalina 30, #511 with original A-4 & MMI manifold.
She is even happier with fresh paint on the topsides!

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Old 09-13-2019, 05:03 PM
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Yes, Cylinder 4 was by far the worst on mine. Then 3 was bad, 2 was just bad-ish, 1 was the only one that looked in good shape
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