Engine Shutdown

[BlueWhale]

I was out sailing in the Baltimore Inner Harbor back in December. I motored out for about 20 minutes and my engine shutdown and would not restart. So. I sailed back to the slip figuring my carburetor was clogged. I recently got around to removing and cleaning out the carburetor. I took Rekofa out yesterday and she ran fine. I ran the engine for a good 30 inutes before heading out and continued to motor for another 45 minutes at least before shutting off the engine and raising the sails. I sailed for a couple of hours before heading to the turning basin to drop my sails and motor back to the slip. All was going well and suddenly the engine shutdown and I was unable to restart it. My plan is to change my filters and adjust/clean the main jet. I'm thinking I have some sediment in the fuel tank that's coming up when I sail. I also recently switched to an electronic ignition system. Just wondering if there was anything I might be overlooking.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks.

[Al Schober]

Blue,
Clean fuel is a good thing. If the stuff in the tank isn't clean, filters can help for a while. Be advised that your fuel pickup tube doesn't go to the bottom of the tank - there could be a couple of quarts of nasty stuff down there waiting to head to your engine. With my boat, I go in through the fill with a long tube & manual pump and pump from the bottom into a jug - see what's there.
I'm also thinking your coil may be acting up. Failing coils will work fine while cool, fail when they get hot, then work again when they cool off. Do a search, and you'll find a lot of info on coils, voltages, dropping resistors, etc. Going to EI seems to add to the coil problems rather than eliminate them.

[JOHN COOKSON]

Brian
Next time you have a shut down pull the center wire out of the distributor and hold it near the engine while someone cranks the engine. A 1" blue-white arc is good. Then we will know if the problem is on the fuel side or the ignition side and what to do next.

TRUE GRIT

Edit: Mechanical or electric fuel pump on your engine?

[joe_db]

There are a ton of threads on this. A failing coil will do what you are seeing as well as fuel issues.

[ndutton]

I think good information right now is please describe in detail the steps you took installing the electronic ignition. Did you take it out of the box, install it inside the distributor and call it good or was there more involved?

[thatch]

Brian, Your shut-down conditions sound similar to what happened during my maiden voyage on my boat which was a two day "motor trip" from San Pedro to Oxnard Ca. After the first day in rather rough conditions, I limped into Marina Del Rey with the A4 barely running. Subsequent inspection showed considerable gunk in the filter, fuel pump and carb. After cleaning those parts she ran fine for the second leg to Oxnard. Years later, after changing to a Moeler "poly tank", I discovered that the solvent action of the alcohol laced fuel had completely cleaned the inside of the original aluminum tank. For checking to see if I have ignition spark I use a "fifth" spark plug that is stored on the top of the lifting ring on the engine. I find it quick and easy to simply unplug one wire and connect it to that plug to verify that there is spark.
Tom

[tenders]

My thesis would be that the new ignition system is stressing an old coil. The likelihood of this based on your symptoms, the ease with which a coil can be swapped out, and the high-sounding probability that the coil's age is undetermined anyway, would lead me to order the Moyer coil, replace it, and not think about the other potential causes unless and until the symptom returns.

The Moyer coil has the right internal resistance, a characteristic that has been debated extensively here. You might be able to flail around and find a cheaper solution somewhere, but unless you enjoy poking around with a multimeter and potentially adding the complexity of identifying and installing an external resistor, I'd say the dollar cost savings cannot possibly be worth the time and peace-of-mind of the Moyer solution.

Once you get this ironed out you will find that the electronic ignition system is as smooth as silk, and as low-maintenance on your boat as it is on your car. It is a huge upgrade over analog points-and-condenser. But you do need to have a compatible coil.

[BunnyPlanet169]

Brian: I'm also thinking coil rather than fuel, especially as you recently switched to EI.

When the engine just quits (like you turned the key), but restarts without issue sometime later, I think coil (or electrical). If the engine sputters or dies dies slowly, and then restarts shortly thereafter only to do the same thing again, I think fuel.

Neil is hinting around what Tenders has suggested to replace right away - if the original points system coil is not matched in resistance to the operational parameters of the new EI, then you can and will have coil problems. They may start intermittently, or it may simply fail and never recover. Did you replace the coil when you did the EI conversion?

[ndutton]

Neil is hinting around what Tenders has suggested to replace [the coil] right away

In a way you're right, I was headed down the well worn path of ignition coil overheating and resultant damage. However, as of yet we don't know if Brian researched the electronic ignition discussions on this forum and followed their recommendations already. If he did, the discussion turns right back to fuel.

I thought I'd ask before jumping to a conclusion. His reported symptom is half the typical coil failure scenario for sure. The part that's missing - or unreported - is then it started again after about 30 minutes.

[joe_db]

In a way you're right, I was headed down the well worn path of ignition coil overheating and resultant damage. However, as of yet we don't know if Brian researched the electronic ignition discussions on this forum and followed their recommendations already. If he did, the discussion turns right back to fuel.

I thought I'd ask before jumping to a conclusion. His reported symptom is half the typical coil failure scenario for sure. The part that's missing - or unreported - is then it started again after about 30 minutes.

My bad coils would do that. They would heat-fail-cool-work for awhile until they died for good. I also had fuel issues that would do that to add to the confusion. This is why I have so many gauges, I needed them to track down the issues.
HINT: Right when it dies, if you spray a little bit of ether in the carb and hit the starter, a fuel starved engine will run for 10-20 seconds on ether and an engine with no spark will not start.

[ndutton]

Absolutely correct Joe. Many of the engine shut down stories on this forum had certain symptoms in common (runs for an hour, shuts down, doesn't restart for a half hour, restarts, runs for 45 minutes, shuts down again). The common assumption back then was fuel but cleaning up the fuel systems didn't solve the problem.

Another factor in common was a recent upgrade to electronic ignition. My very first post asked the question, If electronic ignition is so great, why does everyone hang onto their points plate to reinstall and limp home after it fails?

And so it went . . . .

[BlueWhale]

Still Checking

Back to the boat today. I'm thinking fuel issue. I replaced the coil last year with one from Moyer. I sailed a few times last season with the new coil and EI without issue. I just checked my choke cable and found it to be loose. Not sure if that was impacting the issue but I adjusted and tightened it anyway. I was able to get her started after several attempts and she's been running fine for the last 30 minutes. I'm trying to replicate the problem. Nonetheless, my next steps are to swap out the filters and check fuel. I still have an aluminum tank. I would like to replace it but I can't figure out how to remove it or get a large enough tank in. Thanks for all the advice. I'll keep you posted.

Hopeful Brian, out!

[ndutton]

As mentioned previously, a recently replaced Moyer coil directs the discussion back to fuel as you suspect. It does not completely eliminate the coil though. Please make a simple ohms test across the two small posts on the coil with the wires removed from one of the posts, whichever is the easiest, and report back. We are looking for around 4.3 ohms.

[JOHN COOKSON]

Just to be through take voltage reading at coil + when the engine is running on the off chance the alternator is kicking out to may volts.

TRUE GRIT

[BlueWhale]

In a way you're right, I was headed down the well worn path of ignition coil overheating and resultant damage. However, as of yet we don't know if Brian researched the electronic ignition discussions on this forum and followed their recommendations already. If he did, the discussion turns right back to fuel.

I thought I'd ask before jumping to a conclusion. His reported symptom is half the typical coil failure scenario for sure. The part that's missing - or unreported - is then it started again after about 30 minutes.

Nope, she's not restarting. At best she'll restart for maybe 5 seconds.