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  #1   IP: 205.66.87.3
Old 03-12-2010, 04:29 PM
WILLIAM.PIERCY WILLIAM.PIERCY is offline
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Question Palmer P60 Questions

Ok I had an old boat with an atomic 4 that I got running like a top. Easy to get parts for. I bought another boat from a friend thinking that the engin was another atomic 4. It was a Palmer (or IHC) p60. So I have a few questions for any one knowlegable, and if you can pont me to som one like Mr. Moyer who works on palmers I would love you to the day I die.

1.Parts for this are a nightmare to find, Currently I have an exhaust leak that only shows up after running for around an hour tried soap and water test to find the bubbles but no go. examined it phisicaly and no obvious damage though there is a fair bit of corrosion especially where it meets the engine.

2 . Are there any anodes on the engin itself because the manual is very general at best ( and copied many times) and there don't seem to be any on the shaft. Not even enough room. Its a Pearson 33 racing configuration. ( not much on the web aobut this hull either)

3. I understand the engins are somewhat similar what if any parts can be interchanged, is there a list some where? My carb is mising its flame arrestor and the scavange tube just drains into the bilge. Im not to happy with this.

Though I must say the engin starts every time. These are minor problems but for me major safety issues. Especially the flame arrestor Im a bit parronoid about fire on board a ship after a decade in the navy.

Sincearly and with hope,
IT1 William C Piercy USN active
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Old 03-13-2010, 06:27 PM
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William,

Welcome to the forum and thank you for your service.

For whatever reason the Palmer P60 fell out of favor with the Southern Cal sailboat manufacturers by the early 70's so I expect there are very few of them still out there and consequently a microscopically small parts market.

How much do you expect to spend on the Palmer? You know where I'm headed, fix it this time around - if you can find the parts - and the next problem that develops you're back in the same spot, poor documentation, poor parts availability and lack of available expertise. Depending of course on the budget, I think your money's better spent on a longer term and more manageable solution - - spelled A-4 (way cheaper than a diesel repower).

Besides, that open flywheel would give me the willies, YIKES!!

edit: if the plan is to keep the Palmer, you might want to contact Windsinger to see what's still good on his available P60. I still contend an A-4 is a better solution but having a parts engine might buy some time.
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Last edited by ndutton; 03-14-2010 at 10:38 AM. Reason: Windsinger stepped up
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Old 03-13-2010, 07:36 PM
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A-4 vs Palmer P-60

Just bought a Columbia 28. Had an old Palmer P-60 in it. First thing I waas told was to get rid of it. I had a leak in the head and had the darndest time finding one. When I finally got it, it was the wrong one. The gentleman told me that I would have a very hard time getting parts for it becase with out having the exact engine number it's impossible. Also said that by the time I finished getting all the parts to get it in top shape I could have bought a fresh re-built A-4. I have searched around to see how hard it would be to get parts for the A-4 and found it easy. So, the reason I bought one. I have the old Palmer if anyone wants it. CHEAP! Just can't ship it. Sorry.
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Old 03-22-2010, 04:54 PM
WILLIAM.PIERCY WILLIAM.PIERCY is offline
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Thatnks for the tips, and I have to agree I had an atomic 4 that was a dream to work on and with this more open engin room I would have a much easier time I would think. Trouble is the P60 actually runs great. Starts every time. There are just small things like the exhause leek and the lack of a flame arrestor that bother me. I was wondering will the late model zeinith carb fit on the palmer intake does anyone know? That would fix my flame arrestor problem and I thinkI may be able to fix my exhaust with a fiberglass wrap. Any sugestions would be helpful as the prospect of a repower scares me. Thats a pretty segnificant cash outlay all in one shot.
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Old 03-23-2010, 11:58 AM
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William,
carb/intake area - What type of intake 'horn' does the P-60 have? Would the flame arrestor for the A-4 fit? There are good pictures of the two units available at Moyer Marine in their catalog.

I have both of my carbs at home right now, the next time I think about it, I'll try to get out the calipers and snap a few pics of the sizes so you can see if it might retrofit on the Palmer...either carb or arrestor.

The exhaust issue is probably not directly related to the engine itself. I had an old flange, and picked up one built for the A-4 from Moyer. Just wrapping up the leak to band-aid the problem won't fix it. It may need something simple like a gasket, or the pipe may be leaking, etc.. Probably need some pictures or a more definitive description. I rebuilt the hot section of my exhaust system using galvanized 1 1/4" pipe from a hardware store...the only A-4 specific part was the flange bolted to the manifold.

Good luck and bug me if I forget to do those measurements..I have lots on my plate right now, and it might slip my mind.
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Old 03-23-2010, 12:23 PM
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Hi, William:

Suggest you try checking in with these folks.

Bill
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Old 09-26-2010, 10:39 AM
dan_rutt dan_rutt is offline
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Palmer P60 engine

Quote:
Originally Posted by Windsinger View Post
Just bought a Columbia 28. Had an old Palmer P-60 in it. First thing I waas told was to get rid of it. I had a leak in the head and had the darndest time finding one. When I finally got it, it was the wrong one. The gentleman told me that I would have a very hard time getting parts for it because with out having the exact engine number it's impossible. Also said that by the time I finished getting all the parts to get it in top shape I could have bought a fresh re-built A-4. I have searched around to see how hard it would be to get parts for the A-4 and found it easy. So, the reason I bought one. I have the old Palmer if anyone wants it. CHEAP! Just can't ship it. Sorry.
I am interested if its not too much money!
Thanks
Dan
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Old 09-27-2010, 07:28 PM
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P60 vs A4

I will probably be banned from this list, but IMHO the Palmer is a far superior engine. It has three main bearings and a much better cooling system. Virtually all parts, except the crankshaft and manifolds are from the International Farmall Cub tractor engine. So, internal engine parts are easy to find and much less costly than the A4 parts.

I intend to build the Atkins Rescue Minor, which was designed for a Graymarine Sea Scout 90 CID, but I intend to use the Palmer I have rather than the A4.

Tom
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Old 09-27-2010, 07:53 PM
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Tom,
Curious why you consider the Palmer cooling system superior to the A4, I have no experience either way - just curious.

Sadly, most Palmers I see these days are poorly kept eyesores. I did, however, stumble upon this picture of a P60 in an Ericson 27. I think I'd be tempted to paint one of those Twilight Zone hypnotic spirals on the open flywheel though.

Suhweeeet!
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Old 09-18-2014, 11:30 AM
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I am poking around a larger boat that has my interest. But it also has a Palmer p60 engine. Comjng from a very encouraging experience with the A4 what would folks her predict Palmer ownership to be like? I am thinking performance {Columbia 34) reliability, and parts availability? Is there anything like this community of experts available for the p60? Thanks...
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Old 09-18-2014, 03:12 PM
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Quote:
Is there anything like this community of experts available for the p60?
You might find an expert or two, but I would think that parts might be a deal-breaker. Suggest you look around for a source for the more commonly replaced ones, and see what luck you have.

Part of what makes the A4 sustainable is that there were so many of them produced. I wonder how many Palmers were. Maybe Neil might know?

Bill
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Old 09-18-2014, 05:05 PM
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You probably saw this post already

But here's a recent post for a reasonably-priced A4 for sale, there are certainly others about. Here's a free P60 for parts (on the site Bill provided) from two weeks ago, so may be gone already, worth a shot. Sounds like 2dogs Tom also has a pretty good idea on where to source P60 parts.

Best o' Luck!
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Old 09-18-2014, 09:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Administrator View Post
Part of what makes the A4 sustainable is that there were so many of them produced. I wonder how many Palmers were. Maybe Neil might know?
I know very little of Palmers other than installing a handful of them coincidentally on Columbia 34s and Coronado 30s. Anything I might offer would be what I think, what I heard, etc. Not solid information at all.

Here are excerpts from a discussion on the Old Marine Engine forum:
Quote:
The P-60 is a marine adaptation of an International Harvester C 60 tractor engine by Palmer. This happened in the late 1940s. As far as I can tell the last ones were built into at least 1974. The question of how many were left came up about a year ago. I made a guess that there might be about 200 running or being held on to.

Production started in 1955 and probably ended about 1975 with Crusader. Thermo Electron bought the design in 1971 for their Crusader line. The people that bought the residue of the P-60 did not actually make engines as I understand it they sold parts and left over engines from Crusader. No one knows haw many are still around. [The previous comment] is probably in the ball park but they are rapidly disappearing as operating engines. I know of one that has been operating in saltwater for nearly 30 years with no rust out as the owner is careful to always flush the salt out with fresh water after every use. I believe that 200-300K IHC Cub-Lo-Boys were made and a lot of them are still in good operating condition.
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Old 10-17-2017, 03:14 PM
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Palmer 60 owners

Hi all, new to the forum... though I'm actually not an a4ian. ;-)

One reference for those of you who have a P60 is David's Yacht Service. I couldn't afford one of his rebuilds, but might end up sending him things to service, or purchasing one of his new manifold castings. Here's his URL:

http://www.boatcityyachts.com/davids...%20service.htm

FWIW, his opinion is that the Palmer is actually the better engine. That said, as many have noted, there are FAR more Atomic fours out there. I plan on sticking with my Palmer, as once they're running, they run forever.

One bit of info I've gleaned from this and other forums is that stuck/sticky valves are common occurrences, and that one very common cause is letting seawater into the engine before it's been started. My engine is currently not starting, but was running fine two years ago before the PO left her on her own. I'm currently working on the premise that the valves are stuck, and plan on pouring a bit of Marvel Mystery Oil in through the spark plug holes and hand-turning the fly wheel to spread it around.

BTW, I also have the original P60 manual which came with the boat. If anyone is interested, I can scan it in and provide an electronic copy, let me know.

Thanks-

aenlic
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Old 09-24-2019, 01:50 PM
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Palmer P60 Fuel Issue

Hey Guys, I am new here to this forum and glad I found it/you...I do not have an A4, but the Palmer P60 marine..I have a 1962 Columbia 29...

They other week the family and I were headed to Catalina from Dana Point and the Engine just cut out on us after I heard the RPM's change a little. It is clearly a fuel supply issue...I am working my way back from the tank, replaced the fuel filter that is before the fuel pump, and then took off, cleaned and replaced the Raycor Fuel Filter/Water Separator (which was pretty gunked up). I made sure to check the fuel pump pressure, good pressure and fuel looks clean coming from fuel pump.

When she sits for a while, I fire her up and she runs for about 5-10 min before dying on me...if I try to re-start right away, no luck. Turning over just fine and when it is running for the 5-10 Min, she sounds good and runs strong.

I am stumped...any thoughts or experience with this?

To sum up...new fuel lines, new fuel filters bother before the fuel pump and after (fuel filter/water separator), engine starts fine after sitting for a while then dies...restart right after will not get going.

Thanks,
Adam
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Old 09-25-2019, 02:23 PM
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To me, this sure sounds like the classic "fried coil" symptoms.
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Old 09-25-2019, 02:33 PM
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So it does.

What is the fuel pressure reading when it dies?

* have we moved officially to antique support now
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Old 09-25-2019, 02:53 PM
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After hatching this forum, we toyed with the idea of a companion forum (and maybe even parts) for Palmers, but it didn't seem the population of engines was sufficient to make it worth the effort.

We have entertained questions from Palmer folks over the years, though.

Bill
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Old 09-25-2019, 04:24 PM
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Edward C and joe_db:

Thanks for chiming in...I'll look up fried coil (learning as I go)...

And I do not have a fuel pressure gauge unfortunately. I checked the flow from the fuel pump and seemed good and strong, but I do realized that under load will consume more fuel than in Neutral...this problem happens even when left in neutral. (If that helps at all)
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Old 09-25-2019, 04:30 PM
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Sorry...one other thing to note, (all assumptions here, and you know the saying)..when the engine sits for a bit...I am assuming fuel is settling or building up somewhere and therefore when I fire her up, she runs great until that fuel is used up...try to re-start after she dies and no luck. Trying to turn over, but not getting fuel anymore. I have replaced all fuel lines and filters leading to the carb, but have not dug into the carb yet (partly lack of knowledge, part accessibility and part having my kids with me who have short attention span).
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Old 09-25-2019, 05:02 PM
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Smile

It takes a bit of nerve to post this, in light of a post in a different thread, but try cracking the cap on the deck fill to see if you're fighting a vacuum. If not, I owe you 15 seconds of free air time.

Having said that, I likewise am suspicious of a cooked coil. What does a spritz of starting fluid accomplish immediately after the stall?

Bill

Last edited by Administrator; 09-25-2019 at 05:27 PM.
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Old 09-25-2019, 05:31 PM
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Hummm....Interesting...so your theory here is that a vacuum is being created preventing the fuel from even being pumped out...That will be the first thing I try next, too easy not too...

If that were the case, then I assume there must be a vent for the fuel tank somewhere that is plugged up? I was not aware (and they may not) that a fuel tank would be ventilated.

Worth a try anyways.

I have not tried starter fluid.
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Old 09-25-2019, 05:37 PM
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Hi, Adam:

If you haven't already done so, check out this thread. Read the whole thing.

As others have suggested, a fuel pressure gauge will provide very meaningful data.

Bill
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Old 09-25-2019, 05:52 PM
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Thank you....so many threads, hard to know where to start!

I plan to update all my gauges...my temp gauge crapped out on our first long trip to Catalina a couple of years ago, but I use my hand to check the temp of the water coming out...not ideal but gives me piece of mind...so a full gauge overhaul is over due and needed.
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Old 09-26-2019, 10:28 AM
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A Fisch, installing a cheap fuel filter will answer questions now and in future diagnostics.

10 minutes of running then dying only to restart after sitting for a bit is a classic spark (coil) issue. 3-5 minutes could be fuel running out in the bowl (pressure gage) but it should start once filled again.

Checking for spark immediately after the shut down is a must.

Dave Neptune
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