Return to the home page...

Go Back   Moyer Marine Atomic 4 Community - Home of the Afourians > Discussion Topics > General Interest

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #126   IP: 38.27.109.137
Old 07-10-2020, 06:26 AM
Administrator's Avatar
Administrator Administrator is online now
MMI Webmaster
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Chestertown, MD (Langford Creek)
Posts: 2,194
Thanks: 1,330
Thanked 330 Times in 171 Posts
Of course. I wasn't criticizing your judgment, and I apologize if you took it that way. People go up the mast all the time. If given a choice, I don't.

Bill
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Administrator For This Useful Post:
Ando (07-14-2020)
  #127   IP: 174.255.137.223
Old 07-29-2020, 03:21 PM
Ando's Avatar
Ando Ando is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: San Pedro, CA
Posts: 159
Thanks: 212
Thanked 36 Times in 24 Posts
Overheating Assistance Please

Ok guys, RWC late model with overheating which I plan on tackling this weekend. A bit of background, I recently did a muriatic flush of the cooling system. Today, to prepare for this weekend's task of resolving the overheating (and hopefully to get a better idea where there might be a block in the cooling system) I got a laser heat gun and at about the 15 min mark pointed it at different points of the engine and these are the readings that I got.

Thermostat gauge went from 140 to 160;

Spark plugs were in the range of 180-185 (#4 being the hottest);

A bunch of points all over the head were around 160-174

Manifold was mostly cool (like 150 or less) so was the area around the thermostat housing and the water jacket plate was even cooler.

The connection from the manifold to the exhaust was very high (like 340)!

Does this point to the area of the blockage in the cooling system being at the manifold exhaust connection? Is that where I should start looking for the blockage? I read somewhere that that particular connection is a common problem area. All input appreciated. Thx in advance

Last edited by Ando; 07-29-2020 at 06:00 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #128   IP: 47.142.137.42
Old 07-29-2020, 07:21 PM
JOHN COOKSON JOHN COOKSON is online now
Afourian MVP, Professor Emeritus
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,220
Thanks: 40
Thanked 624 Times in 469 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ando View Post
Does this point to the area of the blockage in the cooling system being at the manifold exhaust connection? Is that where I should start looking for the blockage? I read somewhere that that particular connection is a common problem area. All input appreciated. Thx in advance
If there is a 90 degree bend in the barbs going into or out of the manifold there is high probability that is where the blockage is, especially at the outlet 90 degree barb. I got so sick and tired of blockages at the outlet 90 degree barb I went to straight barbs. Solved the problem - no more blockages.
As you probably know you can flush the KRAP out of the manifold with city water pressure. I recommend it.
Do you have the Thatch Modification? The Thatch Modification introduces cooling water in to the manifold at the low end which eliminates air pockets and makes for better manifold cooling.
You would get more responses if you would start a new thread for each new "adventure".

ex TRUE GRIT
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to JOHN COOKSON For This Useful Post:
Ando (07-29-2020)
  #129   IP: 45.49.35.172
Old 07-29-2020, 08:19 PM
Ando's Avatar
Ando Ando is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: San Pedro, CA
Posts: 159
Thanks: 212
Thanked 36 Times in 24 Posts
Yes, ndutton told me about the thatch mod and I do have it set up like that. I'll check to see about that 90 degree barb once I get back there. Thx so much, Prof. Emeritus
Reply With Quote
  #130   IP: 24.152.132.140
Old 07-29-2020, 08:29 PM
ndutton's Avatar
ndutton ndutton is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 8,958
Thanks: 162
Thanked 1,456 Times in 979 Posts
While those numbers seem a little high for a RWC engine, I'm not seeing a big problem. What suggests it's OVERheating? What am I missing?
__________________
Neil
1977 Catalina 30
San Pedro, California
prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22
Had my hands in a few others
Reply With Quote
  #131   IP: 45.49.35.172
Old 07-29-2020, 11:30 PM
Ando's Avatar
Ando Ando is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: San Pedro, CA
Posts: 159
Thanks: 212
Thanked 36 Times in 24 Posts
Piece of mind when I'm out there. It's bothering me. When I rev it, it goes up to 180 and smoke has now started coming out the back. It's clearly smoke, just like the old engine did before I killed due to lack of oil 180 is just too close to 220 to me, especially when I'm out there.

Side note: I checked the oil level today and it was low so I'll be doing an oil change this weekend as well.

Also, I remember the adventure I've been on before and although I appreciate it and the people I've met along the way and the knowledge I've gained, I dont want to re-live it, I guess I'm just extra sensitive. Ignorance is bliss. I spent a lot time and mental energy in getting a replacement engine and refurbishing it with your help it and did so in time for this sailing season and I want it to tick like a clock and work as it should. That's it. I mean, shouldn't be getting no hotter than say, what, like 160 when I push the throttle? Right?
Reply With Quote
  #132   IP: 47.142.137.42
Old 07-30-2020, 12:29 AM
JOHN COOKSON JOHN COOKSON is online now
Afourian MVP, Professor Emeritus
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,220
Thanks: 40
Thanked 624 Times in 469 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ando View Post
When I rev it, it goes up to 180 and smoke has now started coming out the back. It's clearly smoke, just like the old engine did before I killed due to lack of oil

Side note: I checked the oil level today and it was low so I'll be doing an oil change this weekend as well.
Smoke coming out the exhaust when the engine is revved up after idle; oil is disappearing: Aren't these the classic signs of "burning oil"? Are the spark plugs fouling?
Sounds to me like you need a dry and wet compression test.

ex TRUE GRIT
Reply With Quote
  #133   IP: 108.185.228.107
Old 07-30-2020, 05:31 AM
Ando's Avatar
Ando Ando is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: San Pedro, CA
Posts: 159
Thanks: 212
Thanked 36 Times in 24 Posts
I’ll check the spark plugs this weekend, but a “wet and dry compression test” is novel to me. How do I do that? What do you mean wet and dry?
Reply With Quote
  #134   IP: 24.152.132.140
Old 07-30-2020, 09:03 AM
ndutton's Avatar
ndutton ndutton is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 8,958
Thanks: 162
Thanked 1,456 Times in 979 Posts
A few questions/suggestions re: elevated heat:
  1. If installed, please remove the flow sensor until after troubleshooting is complete.
  2. How old is the water pump?
  3. Have you acid flushed this engine?
  4. Is a bypass valve installed? If yes, try removing the thermostat and closing the bypass valve.
__________________
Neil
1977 Catalina 30
San Pedro, California
prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22
Had my hands in a few others
Reply With Quote
  #135   IP: 155.186.124.219
Old 07-30-2020, 09:43 AM
Dave Neptune Dave Neptune is offline
Afourian MVP, Professor Emeritus
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Lake Arrowhead Ca.
Posts: 4,250
Thanks: 489
Thanked 491 Times in 340 Posts
Ando. first do the "dry test". Be sure the batteries are fully charged, all spark plugs removed, choke open and the throttle set to full. Now do a compression test on each cylinder. I do them twice for checking MY consistancy. That is the dry test.

Wet test is the SECOND test. Now "spray" some WD-40 or spray oil of some sort into the cylinders. Now test again while the cylinder is wet with oil. The oil will fill some of the gaps in the rings if they are worn and you should see "more compression" if the rings are bad. If the compression numbers stay the same and are low you may have valve issues.

Dave Neptune
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Dave Neptune For This Useful Post:
Ando (07-30-2020)
  #136   IP: 165.225.38.121
Old 07-30-2020, 11:13 AM
Surcouf's Avatar
Surcouf Surcouf is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 239
Thanks: 156
Thanked 49 Times in 46 Posts
and if applicable, do not forget to close your cooling water seacock when doing compression test... or it could become a true wet test...
__________________
Surcouf
Almost There - Catalina 27 (1979)
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Surcouf For This Useful Post:
Ando (08-02-2020)
  #137   IP: 108.185.228.107
Old 07-30-2020, 11:15 AM
Ando's Avatar
Ando Ando is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: San Pedro, CA
Posts: 159
Thanks: 212
Thanked 36 Times in 24 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ndutton View Post
A few questions/suggestions re: elevated heat:
  1. If installed, please remove the flow sensor until after troubleshooting is complete.
  2. How old is the water pump?
  3. Have you acid flushed this engine?
  4. Is a bypass valve installed? If yes, try removing the thermostat and closing the bypass valve.
Yes, flow sensor is installed
Water pump is brand new
Yes, muriatic acid wash was done recently
Yes as to the bypass valve. Ok I’ll try removing the thermostat and closing the valve and report back.

But as to wet and dry compression testing as advised by Dave Neptune, I recall we did a dry compression test at the start of the season and at that time compression was as follows:
1. 115
2. 95 sparking stopped
3. 100
4. 100
And I will be doing a wet and dry compression test after going over the steps above
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Ando For This Useful Post:
Captain Crunch (08-05-2020)
  #138   IP: 174.255.137.223
Old 08-01-2020, 03:39 PM
Ando's Avatar
Ando Ando is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: San Pedro, CA
Posts: 159
Thanks: 212
Thanked 36 Times in 24 Posts
Update

Flow sensor removed and replaced with straight water line. Found a couple small barnacles inside the flow sensor.

Removed and checked both manifold input and output barbs (the input is a 90 degree barb but it was clean).

Removed manifold and high pressure washed it.

Oil changed

Dry compression test results (from 1-4): 105, 100, 100, 100.

Wet compression test results to follow (I will be using MMO).

I have not removed the thermostat yet. Planning on running it after the wet compression test and seeing what the temp is at to see if the flow sensor removal did the trick.
Reply With Quote
  #139   IP: 174.255.137.223
Old 08-01-2020, 03:52 PM
Ando's Avatar
Ando Ando is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: San Pedro, CA
Posts: 159
Thanks: 212
Thanked 36 Times in 24 Posts
See comments directly above.

Wet compression test results (I put MMO in each cylinder first, which wasn’t the best idea...should have put it in each individual cylinder prior to testing because the other three cylinders shot out MMO in the first test):

Wet test 1: 200, 120, 120, 115

Just to be sure
Wet test 2: 165, 118, 120, 115
*test 2 was done without placing any more MMO in each cylinder (ie I put MMO in each then tested each cylinder twice and so the MMO was probably all shot out during the first test of the first cylinder).

Last edited by Ando; 08-01-2020 at 03:55 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #140   IP: 174.255.137.223
Old 08-01-2020, 03:59 PM
Ando's Avatar
Ando Ando is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: San Pedro, CA
Posts: 159
Thanks: 212
Thanked 36 Times in 24 Posts
See comments above

I’m not sure what “fouled” spark plugs look like, but here are mine:

Name:  9AF44B8B-6DB5-4FAA-A1BE-86366AB8A719.jpg
Views: 78
Size:  136.5 KB

Name:  073D6A80-8CB9-489A-828A-20AC7C3A8515.jpg
Views: 75
Size:  109.4 KB

Last edited by Ando; 08-01-2020 at 04:33 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #141   IP: 174.255.137.223
Old 08-01-2020, 04:32 PM
Ando's Avatar
Ando Ando is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: San Pedro, CA
Posts: 159
Thanks: 212
Thanked 36 Times in 24 Posts
See comments above.

Water flow is way way way better now. Now my temp gauge isn’t working, but I still have my temp gun and at ~15min of running time it reads between 160-190 at different point along the head, the manifold reads between 100-120 and the connection to the exhaust reads around 400.

Edit: the temp gauge IS working, but only when the engine is off does it give me a reading lol. When it’s on, the pointer falls to below 100. So weird, right?

Last edited by Ando; 08-01-2020 at 04:46 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #142   IP: 24.152.132.140
Old 08-01-2020, 04:52 PM
ndutton's Avatar
ndutton ndutton is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 8,958
Thanks: 162
Thanked 1,456 Times in 979 Posts
Please save the flow sensor as-is for me (tomorrow afternoon?).
__________________
Neil
1977 Catalina 30
San Pedro, California
prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22
Had my hands in a few others
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to ndutton For This Useful Post:
Ando (08-01-2020)
  #143   IP: 174.255.137.223
Old 08-01-2020, 04:57 PM
Ando's Avatar
Ando Ando is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: San Pedro, CA
Posts: 159
Thanks: 212
Thanked 36 Times in 24 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ndutton View Post
Please save the flow sensor as-is for me (tomorrow afternoon?).
Yes, sir. I’ll be here.
Reply With Quote
  #144   IP: 24.152.132.140
Old 08-03-2020, 04:08 PM
ndutton's Avatar
ndutton ndutton is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 8,958
Thanks: 162
Thanked 1,456 Times in 979 Posts
Forensic examination of the flow sensor showed a minor amount of detritus inside but nothing that restricted its movement, encumbered its function or affected its flow. I do not know if removal from the boat dislodged anything that might have been inside, just reporting the condition as I received it.

Do you have a raw water strainer installed (I think I remember you do)? What size is your intake thru-hull? Does it have an external strainer?
__________________
Neil
1977 Catalina 30
San Pedro, California
prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22
Had my hands in a few others

Last edited by ndutton; 08-03-2020 at 09:50 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to ndutton For This Useful Post:
Ando (08-03-2020)
  #145   IP: 45.49.35.172
Old 08-03-2020, 10:27 PM
Ando's Avatar
Ando Ando is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: San Pedro, CA
Posts: 159
Thanks: 212
Thanked 36 Times in 24 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ndutton View Post
Forensic examination of the flow sensor showed a minor amount of detritus inside but nothing that restricted its movement, encumbered its function or affected its flow. I do not know if removal from the boat dislodged anything that might have been inside, just reporting the condition as I received it.

Do you have a raw water strainer installed (I think I remember you do)? What size is your intake thru-hull? Does it have an external strainer?
Thank you, Neil.

I do not have a raw water strainer installed.

Re the size of the thru-hull intake: I have to go back and double check, but if I recall, it is 3/4”.

As for the external strainer, I do have this:

Name:  5F7E76EE-AC9B-4DE3-87BA-7714AF5AAF57.jpg
Views: 49
Size:  111.5 KB
Reply With Quote
  #146   IP: 71.222.36.208
Old 08-04-2020, 10:07 AM
roadnsky's Avatar
roadnsky roadnsky is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Lake Mead, NV
Posts: 2,984
Thanks: 20
Thanked 297 Times in 210 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ando View Post
As for the external strainer, I do have this:
Ando-
Assuming you are currently in the water as opposed to on the hard, I would take a swim and check that external strainer.
Those are notorious for filling and clogging with stuff. Especially sea life.

It could absolutely be limiting your intake of cooling water.
__________________
-Jerry

'Lone Ranger'

1978 RANGER 30
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to roadnsky For This Useful Post:
Ando (08-04-2020)
  #147   IP: 71.222.36.208
Old 08-04-2020, 10:11 AM
roadnsky's Avatar
roadnsky roadnsky is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Lake Mead, NV
Posts: 2,984
Thanks: 20
Thanked 297 Times in 210 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ando View Post
Flow sensor removed and replaced with straight water line. Found a couple small barnacles inside the flow sensor.
Neil-
Please note this comment back in post #138

Ando-
The fact there were barnacles inside the flow sensor would lead me to believe they are also living in that external strainer as well.
__________________
-Jerry

'Lone Ranger'

1978 RANGER 30
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to roadnsky For This Useful Post:
Ando (08-04-2020)
  #148   IP: 24.152.132.140
Old 08-04-2020, 10:38 AM
ndutton's Avatar
ndutton ndutton is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 8,958
Thanks: 162
Thanked 1,456 Times in 979 Posts
That's why I retrieved the sensor for closer examination. When I opened it up there were no barnacles inside, only a few minor specks of greenish growth, none of it hard. Because of the condition of the sensor I immediately started thinking something else might be restricting the flow. Sensor autopsy pics attached.
Attached Images
  
__________________
Neil
1977 Catalina 30
San Pedro, California
prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22
Had my hands in a few others
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to ndutton For This Useful Post:
Ando (08-04-2020)
  #149   IP: 174.255.128.42
Old 08-04-2020, 01:18 PM
Ando's Avatar
Ando Ando is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: San Pedro, CA
Posts: 159
Thanks: 212
Thanked 36 Times in 24 Posts
Here’s a pic of the barnacles I found, one (blurry in the foreground) and one in the back).

I had my diver double check the strainer a couple weeks ago and myself put a rebar down the thru-hull from the top that same day.

Thru-hull is, in fact, 3/4” btw.

Name:  04888259-BDDA-4C49-A020-11465041913B.jpg
Views: 38
Size:  60.8 KB
Reply With Quote
  #150   IP: 24.152.132.140
Old 08-04-2020, 01:31 PM
ndutton's Avatar
ndutton ndutton is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 8,958
Thanks: 162
Thanked 1,456 Times in 979 Posts
That barnacle could certainly affect the flow but was not present when I got the sensor. I would like to see three things happen:
  1. Remove the external strainer. Depending on the design it may mean a complete thru-hull replacement.
  2. Addition of a raw water strainer instead. It is easily cleaned out inside the boat.
  3. A fresh water flush of the engine when cleaning up the boat after a sail. With a flushing Tee and valve installed, it's a 5 minute process.
__________________
Neil
1977 Catalina 30
San Pedro, California
prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22
Had my hands in a few others
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to ndutton For This Useful Post:
Ando (08-05-2020)
Reply

Tags
rebuild

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Indigo sastanley Drive Train / Propellers 374 12-05-2011 11:58 PM
Fire extiguisher Daddy M Safety 9 11-03-2010 09:36 AM
Fuel Problem? gilbert landin Fuel System 8 02-21-2008 11:58 PM
The further adventures of engine # 178848 Baltimore Sailor Troubleshooting 1 09-27-2007 01:03 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:39 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.


Universal® is a registered trademark of Westerbeke Corporation

Copyright © 2004-2020 Moyer Marine Inc.

All Rights Reserved