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Old 08-29-2015, 02:25 PM
cvile1617 cvile1617 is offline
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Getting current from coil output but not from distributor wires to plugs

Engine always runs without fault. Ran for 3 minutes and shut down. Not fuel issue. NO SPARK. Replaced EI module, new Moyer Coil, new distributor cap, new rotor button. EI has proper gap, test light across coil +/- light turns on and off. Connect spark plug to coil wire and spark at plug. Connect coil to distributor and check spark at plug - NO SPARK. I have jumped coil from battery and I am jumping starter to control at engine. New Coil wire but no impact.

So what am i missing???? Why coil output but nothing from the distributor output to any of the plugs

Checked advance weights and they are very clean, springs seem effective when I take a screw driver and spread the weights they pop right back. No gunk, rust or stuff around the weights. Nothing binding them.

I am at a total loss on what the next step is.
  #2   IP: 24.152.132.65
Old 08-29-2015, 03:35 PM
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Good research so far and good reporting.

Did you put the rotor back on after installing the EI?? Sorry, it's a question that has to be asked.

Did you check for spark with all plug wires? I'd like to be sure it's not a single bad wire too.

The next thing I would do is replace the distributor cap and rotor. Bend the little floating tab on the top of the rotor slightly up to insure a good contact with the center post on the underside of the distributor cap and be sure the cap is properly seated on the distributor body.

The distributor is nothing more than a rotating 4 position switch completing the circuit between the center post and each of the plug wire posts in succession.
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prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22
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Last edited by ndutton; 08-29-2015 at 03:39 PM.
  #3   IP: 67.232.91.39
Old 08-29-2015, 03:38 PM
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Did you replace the magnetic ring along with the EI module? If so is it installed properly? Have been reports of the ring being hard to press into place.
??" EI has proper gap"?? What gap?

Dan S/V Marian Claire
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Old 08-29-2015, 03:47 PM
cvile1617 cvile1617 is offline
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Thanks for the quick replies

Gap is correct at 30 1000"s Ring is properly seated, no spark on any plug. distributor seated nicely, rotor button pushed up
  #5   IP: 24.152.132.65
Old 08-29-2015, 03:57 PM
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OK, you either have failure of four plug wires simultaneously (not likely) or the interface between the distributor cap and rotor is lost.

You report EI is functioning, coil is producing spark, coil wire is delivering spark to the center cap post, spark interrupted somewhere between the center cap post and all 4 plug wires at their extreme end.

Let's go find where.

Can you fashion a spark plug inverted into the dist cap plug wire post and ground the plug body (eliminates the plug wire for the test)? Give a test and look for spark. Yes=plug wire problem, no= cap/rotor problem.
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  #6   IP: 198.133.9.86
Old 08-29-2015, 04:23 PM
cvile1617 cvile1617 is offline
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great thoughts on isolating further. So I too a spark plug and attached a wire between threads and block. Connected to coil wire and got a spark - confirm that my ground was good. Next inverted plug and dropped in distributor wire port after extending the plug tip nut so as deep in the hole as far as possible- NO SPARK

Thoughts on the next step with rotor and distributor?
  #7   IP: 198.133.9.86
Old 08-29-2015, 04:26 PM
cvile1617 cvile1617 is offline
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more information. I originally used one of the spark plug wires to connect the spark plug to the coil high output and got a spark. So secondary proof that plug wire is good
  #8   IP: 24.152.132.65
Old 08-29-2015, 04:30 PM
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Continuity test please between the rotor center tab and the rotor perimeter shoe.
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1977 Catalina 30
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Had my hands in a few others
  #9   IP: 67.232.91.39
Old 08-29-2015, 04:45 PM
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And maybe all 5 of the posts on the distributor.
Dan S/V Marian Claire
  #10   IP: 198.133.9.86
Old 08-29-2015, 04:49 PM
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I used a test light. Power to shoe with light from tab to ground and light turned on so - good connection.

Also did the same for one plug port and the coil input on the distributor. Weak light but it did illumninate
  #11   IP: 198.133.9.86
Old 08-29-2015, 04:51 PM
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more background. I have also used the old distributor and rotor as well as the new rotor and distributor all with same outcome - no spark
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Old 08-29-2015, 04:52 PM
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Before anything else I'd replace the distributor cap and rotor. They are consumables so it's probably time anyway.

I'd treat her to new plug wires too. Everything else will be new so why not?

edit: old and new distributor, old and new rotor? Do you mean distributor cap? This is new information, something I missed previously? Can you describe the spark when you see it? Hot, fat and bluish or wimpy and yellowish?
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Last edited by ndutton; 08-29-2015 at 04:57 PM.
  #13   IP: 198.133.9.86
Old 08-29-2015, 04:57 PM
cvile1617 cvile1617 is offline
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she has a new set of clothes. New rotor, new cap, new coil wire, new coil, new EI module, existing magnetic ring. I tested the coil with light. I bumped the starter to a position between plugs and light on tester went out, bumped again to light comes on.

Where could a ground drain the distributor?????
  #14   IP: 198.133.9.86
Old 08-29-2015, 04:59 PM
cvile1617 cvile1617 is offline
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new cap, new rotor. Not fat and blue when coming from the coil. I would say strong and yellow

edit: I am seeing the spark via the plug not by grounding the coil plug.

Last edited by cvile1617; 08-29-2015 at 05:01 PM.
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Old 08-29-2015, 05:06 PM
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So the magnetic ring that you are using now is the same one that was in the distributor when it first stopped running. Correct?
Dan S/V Marian Claire
  #16   IP: 198.133.9.86
Old 08-29-2015, 05:18 PM
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yup same ring. However, if the ring was not working then the coil would not be able to turn on and off- or am i barking up the wrong tree

I just took the coil lead to distributor and grounded near a good bear metal position on the engine and I get a consistent blue arch. Not a huge arch but appears strong
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Old 08-29-2015, 05:19 PM
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Is there anyway the distributor could be going to ground??
  #18   IP: 198.133.9.86
Old 08-29-2015, 05:43 PM
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The A4 has started!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So my tach is connected to the coil. I disconnected one leg to gain more room on the coil + post so I could energize the coil at the engine to confirm not an ignition switch issue.

When I removed the neg side of the tach circuit the baby fired right up. I guess the tach must have a short some where and was going to ground.

Bottom line is new tach and we are hitting the water tomorrow

Thanks to everyone for your insight, patience and ideas. I never give up and I always want to know the why. Now I know
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Old 08-29-2015, 05:48 PM
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Congrats! Enjoy the day!
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Old 08-29-2015, 06:16 PM
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  #20   IP: 107.0.6.150
Old 08-29-2015, 10:23 PM
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Interesting Thread

Never run into a tach before that could ground a distributor enough to weaken a spark. Learned something new for the troubleshooting folder. Thanks. Edit: That said, I think we can see that a voltage check at coil+ from the git go might have revealed a weakness, maybe less than 9 volts? I have often seen an engine produce a spark that seems adequate but is not sufficient to get a spark thru compression. But this is the first time I have heard of a spark that can get to center of distributor but not jump to the cylinder terminals via the rotor. We keep learning.

Last edited by hanleyclifford; 08-29-2015 at 10:32 PM.
  #21   IP: 97.93.94.201
Old 08-30-2015, 11:04 AM
Dave Neptune Dave Neptune is online now
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cville, I tend to agree with Hanley on the tach shorting out. Was the tach working?
You mentioned room on the coil stud, how many wires are you supporting for current?

Check the main engine or block grounds too, if no block ground hook one up.


Did you ever check the actual voltage at the coil positive when cranking? A low voltage issue could easily create the problems listed here.

Good to hear it is running, however I'd do a few checks if the old tach was still working.

A good wiring procedure for the soil is one wire for manual fuel pumps and one (OPSS) for an electric pump. The tach if so equipped is OK but no other power should be taken from that circuit as it must run the instruments and the ignition. In some cases there will be a wire from the starter solenoid for direct voltage during cranking only.

Dave Neptune

Last edited by Dave Neptune; 08-30-2015 at 11:07 AM. Reason: oops
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  #22   IP: 107.0.6.242
Old 08-30-2015, 11:33 AM
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Talking

Only what is necessary should be on coil+. Otherwise you are playing havoc with your voltage at coil +. Here's my current set up; disregard the wires to the left which are simply jointed at a convenient spot: The small black wire from the resistor runs to the (ignition circuit dedicated) amp gauge and the small white wire is bringing the current back to coil+. The large white wire feeds the gauges (including tach) which is not a big draw. The red and black for the EI run from coil+ and coil- respectively. The fat pink (#14) from coil+ runs to "R" at the starter. The green from coil - is the sender for the tach. All other users are fed from different circuits so as not to destabilize voltage at coil+.
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Old 08-30-2015, 11:47 AM
JOHN COOKSON JOHN COOKSON is offline
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Not So Fast Here

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Neptune View Post
cville,
Check the main engine or block grounds too, if no block ground hook one up.
Did you ever check the actual voltage at the coil positive when cranking? A low voltage issue could easily create the problems listed here.
Good to hear it is running, however I'd do a few checks if the old tach was still working.
Dave Neptune
I agree that removing the tach from the circuit and having the engine start implies cause and effect.
I'd feel better if it could be moved closer to proven.
If the OP did a couple of three tests: (A) Shake the relevant wires around while the engine is running. Maybe removing the tach turned a cold connection into a hot wire. (B) Test the tach and the wire for grounding. If the tach was truly grounded why wasn't there an arc welder effect? Maybe there was a low resistance path to ground? (C) And for frosting on the cake measure the voltage at coil + while the engine is being cranked.

TRUE GRIT

Edit: Reinstalling the tach and having a no start would nail it down also.

Last edited by JOHN COOKSON; 08-30-2015 at 12:25 PM.
  #24   IP: 24.152.132.65
Old 08-30-2015, 12:14 PM
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Thumbs down

Quote:
Originally Posted by hanleyclifford View Post
Only what is necessary should be on coil+. Otherwise you are playing havoc with your voltage at coil +
Categorically untrue for a well designed and properly installed wiring system that complies with accepted boating industry standards. It has been previously established on this forum several times, for example: http://www.moyermarine.com/forums/sh...7&postcount=66

There is no acceptable reason for voltage havoc at coil + or anywhere else for that matter. If there is, time to get your own house in order and stop suggesting it's normal* to others looking for help.

*If you add a load to a circuit and it affects the voltage greater than 3% (essential circuit) you need to redesign the entire circuit with larger wire so it doesn't. We've repeated this several times, obviously need to again.

What is so difficult in accepting the ABYC standard on wiring? Why does this keep coming up over and over? If it were different members, maybe but this isn't. Would it help if the standards information was posted by someone else?
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Last edited by ndutton; 08-30-2015 at 12:53 PM.
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