#1
IP: 98.207.152.199
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Electric Fuel Pump Issues
Greetings!
On Saturday when I was motoring in the channel leaving my marina the motor suddenly died. I cranked it again and it ran for about 2-3 seconds and promptly died. At this point I raised the sailed and sailed back to my slip. Surprisingly it was smoother than some of my motoring landings! Engine behavior sounded very similar to forgetting to turn the gas on...Doh! So i narrowed the problem down to a fuel related issue. Checking the system, I noticed that the fuse (10amp) to the oil pressure safety switch // fuel pump was blown. I replaced with a fresh fuse, cranked her up and 3-4 seconds later the fuse died and motor died after another few seconds. To me this sounds like an electrical problem at either the OPSS or the Fuel Pump, but I'm thinking it's more likely to be a Fuel Pump problem. Anyways, I'd like to jump the OPSS to verify whether it's causing any problems, but I'm unsure of whether to connect my gators. I've read a few other post but I really need it spelled out for me :-) Existing Setup: Coil -> Wire ->10AMP Fuse ->wire ->OPSS in -> OPSS out -> Fuel Pump. Fuel pump is bolted to the motor. Where do I connect the gators to avoid doing something really. really. stupid? By the way: I fixed my overheating problem back in September. I monkey'ed around the exhaust manifold and all 90 degree connectors. Lots of nasty stuff was removed. This reduced operating temp to 150-160, even at high RPM. For fresh water this would've been OK, but since I'm in salt i bought the bypass kit and the added pressure reduced temp down to 130-140 depending RPM. Nice! |
#2
IP: 99.124.190.130
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Put the jumper across the OPSS. It's a normally open switch, closed by oil pressure. The jumper will make it act like it's closed. If the problem goes away, replace the switch.
Personally, I think it's the pump. A bad switch would stop the engine but it wouldn't blow the fuse. A bad pump could blow the fuse. |
#3
IP: 98.207.152.199
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Appreciate the reply.
I jumped the OPSS, cranked, started, fuse blew after 2-3 seconds and engine died a few seconds later. Seems like something in the fuel pump is blowing the fuse. Going to order a second one, but before I install are there any tests that I can run to ensure I don't immediately fry the new pump? |
#4
IP: 98.207.152.199
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By the way, I noticed that my coil was making a funny squealing sound as well...
Could that have something to do with it? Video with sound included. http://youtu.be/4py4cZpRNUM |
#5
IP: 66.108.51.167
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Wow!
What a squeeky noise. From a coil? Something is very wrong with this... I have never heard a coil make that noise. Seems to me that you must have a fault in your ignition wiring as you keep blowing fuses. Bypassing the OPSS switch will not fix whatever short or fault that exists in your wiring. Neither will burning out more fuses. Just one more reason why I love my mechanical fuel pump: no wiring!
__________________
Tartan 27 #328 owner born 1958 A4 and boat are from 1967 |
#6
IP: 98.207.152.199
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I'm sure mechanical has it's advantages, but these are the cards I've been dealt and I'm trying to play my hand the best i can
Nothing has changed on the wiring side, so I'm wondering if it's something the fuel pump causing it to blow or in the coil. I'm trying to figure out how to isolate the source of the short... This is the closest diagnosis ive been able to track down: http://www.moyermarine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1890 Last edited by sousou; 11-25-2013 at 12:27 AM. |
#7
IP: 74.46.25.87
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it's probably the pump
I experienced everything you describe, minus the noise. The pump was bad. I installed a mechanical pump. My electric pump was only 2 years old.
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#8
IP: 70.211.71.172
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Interesting. The coil just starting acting up. Maybe from all the cranking?
Already ordered the electric, so we'll see how soon I regret it. . Previous one was installed by PO in 2005. If I can get 8 years out of it I'll be happy! |
#9
IP: 128.183.140.38
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I'm a big doubter in "coincidences", so when two things happen together I'm hard-pressed not to believe that they're related.
The squealing coil is a mystery. The sound reminds me of the squeal emitted by some old-style tube-type video monitors. Or, (a long shot), it could be a "cooked" coil, whth the squeal being caused by escaping pressure in the coil??? But what could cause both the pump and the coil to act up at the same time? The only thing I could come up with is the voltage. If your alternator or regulator is bad, it could me putting 14 volts or more onto the DC bus. This could account for both the pump drawing too much current, and the coil acting up. This would also make the cabin lights burn too bright. Check the system voltage. It's easy, and will rule this in or out.
__________________
@(^.^)@ Ed 1977 Pearson P-323 "Dolce Vita" with rebuilt Atomic-4 |
#10
IP: 67.215.87.12
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Yes -- I'm not a fan of coincidences -- especially when it could burn up another FP!
I found these two posts: http://www.moyermarine.com/forums/sh...t=filled+coils and http://www.moyermarine.com/forums/ar...hp/t-5748.html But do you know if there are any diagrams of what/where I should be metering? My comfort level with electrical is low, so I'm trying to dummy proof this as much as possible. |
#11
IP: 161.213.49.150
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Then I Am Happy
Quote:
Power up the fuel pump through the fuse straight from the battery. Disconnect the wire from coil - and power up the coil. See if the noise goes away. If it does touch the wire back to coil - and see if the noise starts again. My gut feeling is there is more going on than has been sorted out to date ie are the fuel pump burning out and the noise related? (per ED in the post above) TRUE GRIT Edit: If there is a wire from the starter that is cojoined to the lead to the fuel pump at the OPSS disconnct it at the starter and pull it back around the engine. If there is such a wire it could be causing problems. Last edited by JOHN COOKSON; 11-25-2013 at 12:05 PM. |
#12
IP: 67.215.87.12
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There is no wire going from starter to fuel pump. Only connection is: coil ->fuse -> OPSS ->Pump
When I powered straight from the coil to the fuel pump, the fuel pump did not "tick," but I have not tested straight from the battery. Is it safe to connect the wire to the positive terminal of the battery ->10AMP fuse ->Fuel Pump? |
#13
IP: 199.173.224.31
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I would go for 5 or 3 amps for that fuse.
Quote:
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#14
IP: 161.213.49.150
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Quote:
So power the pump by taking the lead to the fuel pump off the coil and connect it to another hot spot. TRUE GRIT |
#15
IP: 75.142.49.80
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"my coil was making a funny squealing sound as well... "
saw the video. That sound is very like a high speed 'make and break' circuit. Is it really in the coil? Could it be points? Get a stethoscope maybe to locate noise?
__________________
"Halcyon" 36' custom sloop. 8 tons. Glass over strip plank mahoghany. Spruce mast and booms, launched 1969. Original A4. |
#16
IP: 107.0.6.242
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The further we go down the coil "rabbit hole" the more I am beginning to appreciate the influence that devices can have on voltage. The electric fuel pump definitely reduces available voltage at coil+ if it is connected there. My solution has been to create independent circuits making sure that coil+ has it's own dedicated path back to the most stable voltage source available.
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#17
IP: 70.211.65.160
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Ido not know with certainty that it was the coil. Unfortunately my aiming was poor on the camera so I didn't even zero in on the coil. I'm not going to have a chance to make it back to boat until Thursday morning.
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#18
IP: 98.207.152.199
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For those that are interested, I managed to upload a video of crank/shutdown.
You'll notice that this time it did NOT making the squealing noise. http://youtu.be/oRQkzCe-lX0 |
#19
IP: 161.213.49.150
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Quote:
I'm almost certain you have a choke\to rich issue. Try pushing the choke in - that is open - as soon as the engine starts. Try playing the choke in different positions as soon as the engine starts. Also confirm that the choke is working correctly. TRUE GRIT |
#20
IP: 67.215.87.12
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Quote:
Curious as to what leads you down the choke\too rich path. When the problem first manifested itself, I was motoring out of the marina after an extended warm up (under load) and ~5 minutes of motoring down the fairway. The motor died all at once as it did in the video. That hasn't been my experience in the past with over-choking. I've got a list of items to trouble shoot this week and I'll add this to the top! |
#21
IP: 161.213.49.150
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Today's Bet
Sounds like you have crud in the carburetor. It probably happened during the motor trip when the engine died. Now you can't get it to idle. The fuel related cause of a poor idle are too rich or too lean of a mixture. I know you are too rich rather than too lean because the engine starts so easy. If the mixture was too lean you would have a hard to no start condition.
Anyway: Before you take the carb apart and clean it out try these two "adjustments": Proper function of the choke - previously mentioned Turn the idle mixture needle in until it is lightly seated then back it out 1 1/2 turns. Best of luck. TRUE GRIT PS: What happened with the blown fuse issue? |
#22
IP: 67.215.87.12
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Will take a look at those adjustments if the Fuel Pump is functioning correctly. The Mixture is backed out 1 & 3/4 quarters turns. I used to have trouble idling in gear after the motor was warm, but I haven't had that issue in several months.
Tracking down the blown fuse & fuel pump issue are projects for tomorrow morning! Sorry if it wasn't clear! Rough outline of steps tomorrow:
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#23
IP: 98.207.152.199
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Few comments:
I would trade 3 inches of cabinet space under my sink of my E27 for 3 extra inches in my motor compartment! What a pain! I clearly didn't think through my steps below as checking the voltage requires a running engine. This is how I spent my morning:
Started like a champ & ran like a dream for 10 minute before I had to pack up and head to Thanksgiving dinner. Going t give it a more thorough test tomorrow and will report back on voltage into coil. I'll also need to fiddle with the choke as opening and closing no longer has any noticeable effect. Appreciate all the tips and suggestions. I definitely have some pointers for folks installing new pumps in the future! |
The Following User Says Thank You to sousou For This Useful Post: | ||
Juice13 (08-02-2021) |
#24
IP: 174.58.84.3
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You did not throw any wrenches?
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#25
IP: 24.152.131.153
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Only if the ignition system wiring is too small. That's the definition of voltage drop.
__________________
Neil 1977 Catalina 30 San Pedro, California prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22 Had my hands in a few others |
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fuel pump, fuse, opss |
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